@InbetweenDreams I think I'm having flashbacks to 20 years ago when I tried using the home monitor the first time and expecting the same thing all over again. Sometimes I can feel myself getting edgy just thinking about it. It sounds crazy but I've even thought about telling the doctor the thing broke just to avoid having to deal with it. I find it hard to believe with all the people who have these kinds of problems that nobody has ever invented a way to measure BP without the person being aware of it.

(02-02-2022, 05:10 AM)calgor Wrote: @InbetweenDreams I think I'm having flashbacks to 20 years ago when I tried using the home monitor the first time and expecting the same thing all over again. Sometimes I can feel myself getting edgy just thinking about it. It sounds crazy but I've even thought about telling the doctor the thing broke just to avoid having to deal with it. I find it hard to believe with all the people who have these kinds of problems that nobody has ever invented a way to measure BP without the person being aware of it.

The only thing that comes slightly closer are the blood pressure cuffs that go around your wrist instead of your arm. They aren't as accurate since the arteries in your wrist vary person to person and of course are smaller. Not sure if that would make any difference in how you measure it.

I do think a therapist would be able to help you more since it is something specific like that and they would be able to help you develop the skills to not feel like that. Then again, not sure "exposure therapy" is always appropriate.

I consider myself lucky that I don't have to deal with depression or anxiety.

I think that these conditions are much more common than the general public realizes, and the stigma that goes along with them is unfair.

(02-03-2022, 02:01 AM)CellarDweller Wrote: I consider myself lucky that I don't have to deal with depression or anxiety.

I think that these conditions are much more common than the general public realizes, and the stigma that goes along with them is unfair.

It is unfortunate. I was discussing the whole thing with a friend of mine and how I felt like I'm "damaged goods" and it is bullshit, everyone is made to feel that there's something wrong with them and so everyone keeps it to themselves feeling terrible.

Well, I am going to pay the doctor a visit and see what they suggest.

So went to the doctor and long story short I was prescribed venlafaxine (Effexor). Has me starting out on 37.5 mg for 10 days before going to the 75 mg dose. Appears that is on the lower end of the dosage from the little bit I read. It does seem to have already had an overall positive effect. Only side effect is feeling a little sick to my stomach which is pretty common place, but not throwing up and shit like when my previous doctor tried citalopram. I can deal with that. It is too early to tell but doesn't seem to have caused any adverse effects in mood or other side effects. All I can attest to is that I do feel more energized and can't say I felt bad or "gloomy" but definitely need to give it more time, especially given that I'm on half the dose, so we'll see how it plays out.

I'm not discouraging anyone from seeking help, but prescribed antidepressants never helped me. I'm usually depressed for no obvious reason, and my wife is similarly happy all the time. It's clearly a biological thing, but if a pill can help, I haven't found it.

I flushed my pills down the toilet in my 20s - I forgot what they were called but they made me feel like I was the walking dead. 

I chose psychotherapy and daily workouts twice a day as my path forward back in the 80s and it has been successful for me. The depression has been gone for a very long time and for the anxiety I use the tools I learned to give myself therapy and it works 85% of the time.

(02-07-2022, 02:43 AM)doubletrouble Wrote: I'm not discouraging anyone from seeking help, but prescribed antidepressants never helped me. I'm usually depressed for no obvious reason, and my wife is similarly happy all the time. It's clearly a biological thing, but if a pill can help, I haven't found it.

It is also very discouraging when the pills do nothing, make you sick or whatever and then the doctor tells you there's a bunch more they can try as if they're playing a game of darts.

(02-07-2022, 09:10 AM)eastofeden Wrote: I flushed my pills down the toilet in my 20s - I forgot what they were called but they made me feel like I was the walking dead. 

I chose psychotherapy and daily workouts twice a day as my path forward back in the 80s and it has been successful for me. The depression has been gone for a very long time and for the anxiety I use the tools I learned to give myself therapy and it works 85% of the time.

At the end of the day, doctors may be knowledgeable, but we decide what we put in our bodies. I do think psychotherapy can be by far superior to any medication. After all, medications are not a silver bullet, you still have needs to fulfill to be "complete" (can't think of a better way to describe it). Unfortunately, my work schedule pretty much kills off my ability to seek psychotherapy unless I can do something online. Last I knew insurance doesn't pay for online stuff, but that might have changed due to the pandemic. I used to see a therapist which entailed a 55 mile drive from work and a 35 mile drive back home. The therapist was great but she ended up leaving the group and I decided to stop going at that point.

I could definitely use some plan or motivation to get exercise on a regular basis and yes I do think that helps stave off depression. I don't care for gyms or treadmills though. So when winter comes it usually means depression gets worse. Perhaps I should move to Florida lol.

As long as the stuff I'm on doesn't make me feel like the walking dead or want to drive my car into a tree and actually seems to help I'm fine with it. At least until I can find a way to keep myself on the horse.

I have read and heard many accounts of anti-depressants being either the thing that saved their life or the thing that nearly ruined it. I think the problem is simply not knowing what medication will have a positive effect, one that doesn't cause side effects and addresses the problem. One thought I did have was that we were not meant for this modern world. Where we're expected to adhere to all these things that society expects us to, but perhaps I am wrong. There is something seemingly unnatural about sitting in an office for 10 hours a day looking at monitors.

I just want to feel good, feel good about life and not feel as if I should just give up and throw the towel in. And it's hard to give a fuck about anything, to find motivation, to love yourself enough to pull yourself out of the current. So I do think whether it is medication, psychotherapy or both are things that can help someone pull themselves up. Some folks need this stuff for a short time, others need more help. Likewise, I do think if you can do it without medications you're probably better off but don't turn your nose to them if you need them. Plus there's sort of a stigma about taking medications for mental health reasons, like as if I'm "damaged goods" or something. So there's plenty of reasons why we wouldn't want to get on these medications, whether it's the stigma, the side effects or whatever it is.

At any rate @eastofeden I am happy you found a way to stay off this stuff. Definitely a healthier option working out alone. I know a lot of the older SSRI's like Prozac came out in the 80's but going backwards from that, it seems like the medications were much less effective and more intoxicating.

Speaking of the online therapists, has anyone had experience with those services like Better Help and such?

(02-07-2022, 02:36 PM)InbetweenDreams Wrote: At the end of the day, doctors may be knowledgeable, but we decide what we put in our bodies. I do think psychotherapy can be by far superior to any medication. After all, medications are not a silver bullet, you still have needs to fulfill to be "complete" (can't think of a better way to describe it). Unfortunately, my work schedule pretty much kills off my ability to seek psychotherapy unless I can do something online. Last I knew insurance doesn't pay for online stuff, but that might have changed due to the pandemic. I used to see a therapist which entailed a 55 mile drive from work and a 35 mile drive back home. The therapist was great but she ended up leaving the group and I decided to stop going at that point.

I could definitely use some plan or motivation to get exercise on a regular basis and yes I do think that helps stave off depression. I don't care for gyms or treadmills though. So when winter comes it usually means depression gets worse. Perhaps I should move to Florida lol.

As long as the stuff I'm on doesn't make me feel like the walking dead or want to drive my car into a tree and actually seems to help I'm fine with it. At least until I can find a way to keep myself on the horse.

I have read and heard many accounts of anti-depressants being either the thing that saved their life or the thing that nearly ruined it. I think the problem is simply not knowing what medication will have a positive effect, one that doesn't cause side effects and addresses the problem. One thought I did have was that we were not meant for this modern world. Where we're expected to adhere to all these things that society expects us to, but perhaps I am wrong. There is something seemingly unnatural about sitting in an office for 10 hours a day looking at monitors.

I just want to feel good, feel good about life and not feel as if I should just give up and throw the towel in. And it's hard to give a fuck about anything, to find motivation, to love yourself enough to pull yourself out of the current. So I do think whether it is medication, psychotherapy or both are things that can help someone pull themselves up. Some folks need this stuff for a short time, others need more help. Likewise, I do think if you can do it without medications you're probably better off but don't turn your nose to them if you need them. Plus there's sort of a stigma about taking medications for mental health reasons, like as if I'm "damaged goods" or something. So there's plenty of reasons why we wouldn't want to get on these medications, whether it's the stigma, the side effects or whatever it is.

At any rate @eastofeden I am happy you found a way to stay off this stuff. Definitely a healthier option working out alone. I know a lot of the older SSRI's like Prozac came out in the 80's but going backwards from that, it seems like the medications were much less effective and more intoxicating.

Speaking of the online therapists, has anyone had experience with those services like Better Help and such?

Prozac sounds familiar - it might have been the drug. 

I think it was a combo of all the things I mentioned that put me in a better place. The exercise thing definitely helped because it gave me a seratonin rush every day which made the depression kinda disappear. There are all kinds of ways to exercise and no "right way" - just what is "right" for you. I started by accident really. In the early 80s everyone I knew started dying of AIDS and I lost almost all of my friends and aquaintances by the time 2000 rolled around. Four of us left that I know of out of maybe 50-60 - plus it didn't help that I worked in a gay nightclub and watched one after the other people I just knew as customers die one by one. THAT was depressing but a different kind of depression - it just added to an inherent depression I already had. I started doing primal screaming just to get a release and at the same time I would go on Sunday morning at 6 AM to San Francisco and dance all day until maybe 9 PM to release the stress and a side effect was the seratonin. I would get soaking wet every Sunday and just dry off in my car and go to the next club so it was an accidental side effect that my depression started to slowly subside. I also found i needed a "fix" so I went to jazzercize the rest of the week twice a day for two hours each day and unbeknownst to me at the time I was getting a seratonin fix because when I quit I felt the depression again so I made sure since then to always have an exercise plan and gym membership whether it is walking or running or treadmill or jump rope ect ect. 

I had a very good therapist who helped me for years and taught me how o help myself - I have never used an online therapist but I would expect that it might be a good option - finding the right one for you is important which actually might be easier online since you can see the options whereas looking for the right one in person might take alot longer.

(02-07-2022, 09:35 PM)eastofeden Wrote: Prozac sounds familiar - it might have been the drug.

Could have been that, it was one of the first SSRI's to come to the market. Some of the others came out in the early 90's like this stuff I'm on. I guess while I'm that subject, so far today not too bad. I did wake up for a little bit last night but I was able to fall back asleep. The question is whether I am actually awake more (because we all have periods when we're awake while we sleep, just seldom remember it) or not. The things I would be concerned about is not being able to sleep on this drug....I like my sleep lol. What I can say is that I am finding it easier to get out of bed in the morning and get on with the day. Not feeling sick to my stomach this morning but that seems to peak around 9-10 am. Might have to cut back my coffee consumption, I drank my usual 2-3 cups and damn I was wired, so I looked into it and there does seem to be an interaction of some sort. That's a bit of a bummer. Finally, the main concern is my behavior. I just hope it doesn't change my personality or mute out emotions like Zoloft did.

(02-07-2022, 09:35 PM)eastofeden Wrote: I think it was a combo of all the things I mentioned that put me in a better place. The exercise thing definitely helped because it gave me a seratonin rush every day which made the depression kinda disappear. There are all kinds of ways to exercise and no "right way" - just what is "right" for you. I started by accident really. In the early 80s everyone I knew started dying of AIDS and I lost almost all of my friends and aquaintances by the time 2000 rolled around. Four of us left that I know of out of maybe 50-60 - plus it didn't help that I worked in a gay nightclub and watched one after the other people I just knew as customers die one by one. THAT was depressing but a different kind of depression - it just added to an inherent depression I already had.

That would be extremely painful to cope with for anyone, with or without depression. I don't know if I would be able to pick myself up dealing with that, especially considering how gay people were treated back then plus everything else.

(02-07-2022, 09:35 PM)eastofeden Wrote: I started doing primal screaming just to get a release...

I had not heard of primal screaming other than a possible reference in a song. I like to occasionally look at other people's interpretations of songs sometimes. In the song "In A Big Country" the first lyrics are "Come up screaming" at the start of the song and someone's interpretation of that lyric referenced primal screaming.

Obviously I have never done it or even looked into what it is actually (obviously it involves screaming). I'll have to google it.

I have often felt that my emotions are walled off. I avoid, "feeling" things a lot of the time. I don't like things that make me sad or things that are painful. Like I was reluctant to reply over the AIDS stuff, that's fucking hard to live that. I cannot imagine living that and how you and anyone else felt and dealt with it. I really don't have words. Perhaps that's why I watch comedies and such, because I don't want to feel and deal with the "darker" side of the emotional spectrum. I don't know how to really deal with "painful" things, I just bottle it up and press on. Just can't deal with the feeling of losing control. Hopefully I'm making sense and not coming off like a cunt...

(02-07-2022, 09:35 PM)eastofeden Wrote: ... and at the same time I would go on Sunday morning at 6 AM to San Francisco and dance all day until maybe 9 PM to release the stress and a side effect was the seratonin. I would get soaking wet every Sunday and just dry off in my car and go to the next club so it was an accidental side effect that my depression started to slowly subside. I also found i needed a "fix" so I went to jazzercize the rest of the week twice a day for two hours each day and unbeknownst to me at the time I was getting a seratonin fix because when I quit I felt the depression again so I made sure since then to always have an exercise plan and gym membership whether it is walking or running or treadmill or jump rope ect ect. 

I don't know how the hell you did all that. All I can say is that you must have been really good shape. I do recall back when I was running all the time I did get the runners high when I started increasing distances, especially after I got past the 5 mile mark. In reality, I think I was pushing myself too hard too fast. I would like to get back into that. I was trying to get up to the point where I could participate in a half marathon but never quite got up to that mileage. I think the most I had done at one time was 8 miles. Right now, I probably couldn't run 1/2 mile lol.

One thing about dancing. Not sure why exactly, maybe it's something to do with the above or maybe it is to do with my social anxiety problem, but I have a terrible fear of dancing, period. Won't do it in private, won't do it in private with someone and damn sure as hell ain't doing it in public. Maybe it's a phobia of some sort, but I just can't and refuse to do it. At the same time, yes, I would like to get over that but the though of it is shrieking to me.

(02-07-2022, 09:35 PM)eastofeden Wrote: I had a very good therapist who helped me for years and taught me how o help myself - I have never used an online therapist but I would expect that it might be a good option - finding the right one for you is important which actually might be easier online since you can see the options whereas looking for the right one in person might take alot longer.

That might be an option if this medication doesn't help. I do think it is doing something but I'm only on dose #4 and it won't be until next month before the verdict comes in on that. So we'll see.