Gay History, One Man's Memory

[Dat]

Thanks for your reply.Absolutely, which is why I am sure it won't change.

It will change IF people stop settling and letting others tell them what they can/can't have. The deal breaking/compromising will have to stop.

So you accept that you care more about the principle of equality than practical legal rights. That is a perfectly reasonable position, but not all of us share it.

I believe I admitted as much. Did you happen to read my post? I stated that some people believe differently than I do, differently than my generation does and there really isn't an argument that I can make. Some rights are better than none. Some of us just don't buy into that. Some do, some don't. To each his own.

Who does get to decide?

I'll tell you who doesn't get to decide. The ballot box. This issue will not be settled until it goes to SCOTUS. Than it will be settled once and for all. People in my community, even some people of my generation say this is not the time for civil rights to go to SCOTUS. The court is to conservative. I say anytime is the right time. Any court, conservative or liberal would have to rule that the majority do not get to make the rules for the minority. It's part of the constitution FFS. There is also no basis found in the constitution to prevent gay marriage. If anything, the constitution supports it based on marriage amendments that were passed back in the 60s regarding interracial marriage. Yeah, I remember that fight too. LOL

This is not an ideal world, an anyone who thinks it ever will be is, in my opinion, a fool.

I don't believe anyone stated this was an ideal world or that it ever would be. The fools, as I see them, are the ones who are willing to settle for table scraps with one hand while tossing their civil rights away with the other.

Do you think when we demanded the right to live where we wanted to and not be beaten or have our houses burnt down that we 'settled' for just certain neighborhoods? No. It was let us live in peace anywhere we damn well choose. There was no compromising.

I can go on and on and on with the struggles and how settling was NEVER on the table.
Settling is on the table now. I believe the reason is because young people do not know their history. They don't know the sacrifices that were made. They don't know that the previous generation refused to settle and that we see that willingness to settle as a slap in the face to everyone who fought so hard to get YOU the little bit you have now.

If the choice is between table scraps and nothing, I'll take the table scraps.

And you're welcome to those scraps. Enjoy.

Your example, from VA, shows how fickle executive orders are.

What it shows is that when you settle for scraps those scraps can be taken away with the stroke of a pen. By any state. Or maybe use the ballot box and let the Mormons fund millions of dollars into removing those scraps.

Those are the two options for removing rights. Until we have full equality across the entire country you run the risk of having your table scraps taken away because you settled.

Short of SCOTUS, ruling that the Constitution mandates same-sex marriage, gay workplace protections, etc., etc. I don't think you are going to be happy. If I was an American, until and unless that happens I would play the dirty game that is politics.

And just what do you think we have been doing? To imply we are not involved in politics is not only offensive, but shows how very little you know about gays in this country. But that's okay. You don't live here, you don't live it, so why would you even want to know?

In every single state where our rights are put on the ballot we are out there, holding fund raisers for candidates. Going door to door. Airing TV commercials. We bus ourselves to other states trying to do what we can. Trying to make sure the candidates who actually realize we are no different than anyone else have some chance of being elected.

Every single time a state tries to take rights away, we're out there. We buss ourselves in. Doing the same thing. Fund raising, door knocking, donating our own money. Why? Because we are now trying to protect the table scraps. Those scraps that can so easily be taken away by your own admission.

As another example for you. I'm from the great state of Ohio. Well it used to be a great state. From Columbus. Did you know that Columbus was rated the number 2 place in the country to live if you were gay? Only San Francisco was rated higher. We had our civil unions. We had our domestic partnerships. We had the ability to pay thousands of dollars to protect our families IF we had the money. And a lot of us did. One thing that does ring true is that gays have more discretionary spending available to them.

But what about that great city of Columbus now? It's all gone. One day at the voting booth moved Columbus from #2 in the country to, well, they're no longer even on the list.

That is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. If you settle for A, then you don't get to bitch when they take A away.

As far as SCOTUS goes, I think I've already stated equality for gay men and lesbian women will only be done through SCOTUS. We have tried many times to get it to SCOTUS and have failed each time. The latest was Prop 8 in California. That was really going to make it. Both sides said they would appeal to SCOTUS. Then the other side played some tricks and arranged things so that it will not make it to SCOTUS. The other side knows. When it hits SCOTUS, it's over. It's a done deal.

It just saddens me when young people make statements such as yours. We'll take what they give us this week and continue to fight for more. That's a great argument. It just doesn't work in reality. Take what they offer today, and they'll take it away tomorrow. That IS the history once people began to settle.

I am a very principled person. People can only treat you the way you allow them to treat you. I have seen too much. I have been through too much. I remember. I saw. I lived it.
No one gets to treat me like a 2nd class citizen with my approval. I refuse to give that approval.

This new movement, and I do call it a new movement, is able to settle. They are able to accept scraps. They simply have no idea what was done to get to this point. Now it's a big party. Which is great, I'm all for celebrating. But it's not a party. There is still much work that needs to be done.

The question I ask myself is simple. Who is going to finish this? My generation will be gone in the not too distant future. There will be few left who will refuse to sacrifice their principles. There will be few left who will refuse to settle for scraps.

So much of our time, money, and energy is wasted today trying to protect the scraps that we were given. Much better use could be made of that time, money, and energy if people actually had a few principles and refused to settle.

It's the old adage, once you have something you don't want to see it taken away. So you fight for it. And you normally lose the battle anyway. And now the problem becomes that you spent so much time, energy and money trying to save the table scraps that there is little or nothing left to fight for true equality. That is the true damage of settling. And you don't think our opponents know that? It's right out of their playbook. Give them A, try and take A away. That will stop the progress for true equality. Right out of the playbook.

Play 2 is even more obvious and simple. Get gay men and lesbian women to fight amongst themselves. Some like yourself say, we should take what they offer. Others say all or nothing I find it amazing how great those two plays have worked for our opponents.

I fault no one for settling and I understand the argument. The argument is more than valid and I could get behind that argument when it comes to anything else. Just not my civil rights. I wish I could make an argument that you could understand. I don't have that argument and words fail. I think you would need to have lived through what we did. Fought the fights we did. Maybe have a few bricks and rocks thrown at you as you march for your civil rights. I understand and have seen first hand the damage settling does and why I believe it should never be an option.

I think you would have to see how the movement has changed. It really isn't about civil rights anymore. There are no more marches for those civil rights. Those marches have been replaced with parades and floats, and yes, even settling.

I will say this one last thing in an attempt to get you to understand. If us old codgers had settled, your life would not be what it is today. You would still be beaten daily. You would still be refused housing. You would still be considered mentally deficient. You would not be able to adopt. And the list goes on. With every single one of those issues settling was not an option. Why should gay marriage be treated differently?

Speaking of adoption that's another great example of what settling got us. There was a time when a gay person could not adopt anywhere in this country. That has changed. Slowly, but it has changed. The states that refused to settle for foster parenting now have full adoption rights. All or nothing. The states where gays settled and accepted the scraps (foster parenting only) still can't adopt. They can be a foster parent/family with a child for 5, 10 years but they will never be able to adopt that child. They can also have that child pulled from their home on a whim. A child you have loved and cared for. Just removed. No reason. It's just time. Children destroyed because they are taken away from the only parents they have ever known. Not to mention what it does to those parents. THAT is what settling gets you. Pain and heartbreak.