Cognitive Dissonance Being Gay & Republican

[East]

One of the daily talking points from John McCain's campaign which was available online was to counter any attack on Republicans or Republican Policy by saying this..."BOTH SIDES ARE THE SAME"....it is a Republican Talking Point. I am surprised how many people just go along with it and repeat it....do they REALLY think both sides are the same? Do people just not understand what talking points are?

[Pix]

i am saying the homophobic gay republican population have an un supportable moral belief system that they cant handle in their live and thus they are in the closet. Even tho they are self supporting grown men.

Are you meaning to include any and all gay Republicans?

Or are you seeing a difference between the gay Republicans who go along with the current gay bashing (or at least suffer it in silence) and those gay Republicans who are actively (if futilely, it seems, despite some minor successes) trying to change Republican views about gays, or at least move the focus away from this issue?

[Inchante]

please recall the OP's (me) original definition of Cognitive Dissonance as a 1960's technical phyc term where a person has conflicting beliefs that generate latent hate. An example is the homophobic parent who is unsure of his sexuality but by keeping the focus of his family narrow was able to cope for 17years and raise his children.

i am saying the homophobic gay republican population have an un supportable moral belief system that they cant handle in their live and thus they are in the closet. Even tho they are self supporting grown men.

1. Not all gay Republicans are in the closet.
2. Not all gay Republicans believe the same things about gay rights as many in their party hold. Indeed, not all straight Republicans believe the same things about gay rights that many in their party hold.
3. As a result of one and two, we cannot logically conclude that all gay Republicans and Republicans in general are homophobic. The term "homophobic" was not in your original post or in the thread's title. Though, as an addendum, it certainly makes your statement true. A Republican who is homophobic and homosexual would naturally be subject to cognizant dissonance, as would a Democrat who is homophobic an homosexual. I think that we can both agree that your original statement was broader: "Embrace the Cognitive Dissonance of Being Gay and Republican."
4. The three statements above are what I have been trying to convey to you. I'm sorry if I didn't get my point across.

Please read the following for an example of 1. Not all gay Republicans are in the closet 2. Not all Republicans believe the same things about gay rights that many in their party hold. 3. Not all gay Republicans or Republicans in general are Homophobic.



ABOUT LOG CABIN REPUBLICANS

What We Believe

We are loyal Republicans. We believe in limited government, strong national defense, free markets, low taxes, personal responsibility, and individual liberty. Log Cabin represents an important part of the American family—taxpaying, hard working people who proudly believe in this nation's greatness. We also believe all Americans have the right to liberty and equality. We believe equality for gay and lesbian people is in the finest tradition of the Republican Party. We educate our Party about why inclusion wins. Opposing gay and lesbian equality is inconsistent with the GOP's core principles of smaller government and personal freedom.

Why We Exist

Log Cabin Republicans work to make the Republican Party more inclusive, particularly on gay and lesbian issues. Equality will be impossible to achieve without Republican votes. Working from inside the Party—educating other Republicans about gay and lesbian issues—is the most effective way to gain new Republican allies for equality. Log Cabin also exists as a voice for GOP values among members of the gay and lesbian community.

Creating Change

We are first and foremost a grassroots organization. Thousands of members in dozens of chapters across the country work inside the GOP to change hearts and minds. One person at a time, we are building a stronger Republican party and a better America.

Aside from our growing membership base spread around the nation, Log Cabin boasts an experienced political staff in our nation's capital. The office serves as an important link to Republican Party leaders. We are gaining new allies for equality everyday in Washington and around the nation.

To achieve a more inclusive GOP, it is important for gay and lesbian Americans participate in the Republican Party, educating those who fail to understand the need for civil equality and equal protection under the law. LGBT Republicans are shattering stereotypes and educating the GOP's rank-and-file about the importance of fairness and equality for all Americans, including gay and lesbian Americans. We are on the path to progress.

[pellaz]

Are you meaning to include any and all gay Republicans? Or are you seeing a difference between the gay Republicans who go along with the current gay bashing and those gay Republicans who are actively ... trying to change Republican views ...

Why try to shine a turd?

[East]

Log Cabin Republicans gave Scott Brown who is DEFINITELY anti gay their highest honor for supporting the repeal of DADT.

http://politicalcorrection.org/blog/201109200013

Cognitive Dissonance

[Inchante]

One of the daily talking points from John McCain's campaign which was available online was to counter any attack on Republicans or Republican Policy by saying this..."BOTH SIDES ARE THE SAME"....it is a Republican Talking Point. I am surprised how many people just go along with it and repeat it....do they REALLY think both sides are the same? Do people just not understand what talking points are?

I am afraid that I am not familiar with that Republican talking point, as I am not a Republican. I am familiar with theories surrounding both dialectics and deconstruction, however. And I am also familiar with the fact that, though more often than not I disagree with Republicans, they can and do come up with valid and intelligent points on a variety of issues from time to time.

So, I guess I cannot so easily dismiss the idea that people with differing perspectives on an issue can be quite valuable. I don't buy into the whole "it is us vs. them", "you are with us or against us", "if you don't agree with me you must be insane or stupid", "good vs. evil" notion. After all, isn't that the mentality that surrounds racism and homophobia?

[Inchante]

Why try to shine a turd?

I think I am going to have to quote Blokeinsuseex:

"The bipolarity of the political debate in the US really does get my goat, it comes across so damnedably childish to those of us on the outside."

I mean, I'm not in the closet, I've worked for the National gay lesbian Task Force in D.C., and I am certainly not a Republican. I suppose the reason why I argue ANY of these points is because of the above statement. It is true--"damnedably childish" . . . even to many in the country.

[Pix]

Why try to shine a turd?

For the same reason the Democratic Party was once polished. The Democrats used to be extremely racist and conservative (and I presume you know why Log Cabin Republicans call themselves by that name, trying to connect themselves with the Republican Lincoln), but that changed over time. So parties can change. And the Stonewall Democrats helped to change it further, capitalizing on the Democrat's new position on inclusion.

Personally, I'd love it if the Republican Party could be made more gay friendly, capitalizing on the ideals of small government and individual liberty. Then the Democrats would have to actually support us rather than throwing us under the bus as many of them tend to do. (It would also signify the waning, if not end, of the extreme Christian Right in mainstream politics as well, a HUGE bonus in my book.) If the old Democrat Party can change, then so can the Republicans, and there have been small gains.

Of course many gay Republicans overlook a lot of antigay rhetoric and actions, but that kind of cognitive dissonance isn't limited strictly (or even primarily) to Republicans.

But I will say I'm puzzled in that I know some heterosexual male Republicans who are scared how insane the party has gotten to the point they're either refusing to vote or are even voting Democrat, so how can gays not also be afraid and/or offended? IMO, gays (and other groups) need to refuse to vote for them (at least the crazy ones, which seems to be about all of them at the moment) in 2012 just to show their current wing nuttery won't be tolerated, especially if someone like Santorum is the alternative to Obama.


Anyway, I was just trying to get a clarification to prevent you and others from talking past each other because you meant one thing and others assumed you meant something else.

[pellaz]

isnt being a gay Republican conflicting? thus the Cognitive Dissonance of Being Gay and Republican. not talking of where the party was 100 years ago and not what it could change into 10 years from now.

[Inchante]

isnt being a gay Republican conflicting? thus the Cognitive Dissonance of Being Gay and Republican. not talking of where the party was 100 years ago and not what it could change into 10 years from now.

Well, getting republicans to change their minds over the course of the next ten years, fifteen years, twenty years. . . however long it takes is not likely to happen without an effort to change hearts and minds (e.g. the work of the Log Cabin Republicans). That is how these things happen, you engage people and try to reach them on a personal level. Deriding them is not effective. it simply makes them shut down and stop listening to what you have to say.

People who look for the negative in a group of people are going to find it. That is what many republicans do to gay people. Unfortunately, certain gay people feel entirely justified in doing the exact same thing to republicans. And I hate to sound like your mother, but there is truth to the old repudiation, "two wrongs don't make a right". If people continue talking past each other instead of to each other, there will be no progress on a social front. Sometimes you just have to take the higher road in order to accomplish your goals.