Gay Amish

[Sylph]

I'm not sure what this statement has to do with this thread.

I think he just means that in today's world, where things are changing and gays can be themselves(atleast, more than the Amish), the Amish lifestyle is very constricting and close minded.

Atleast, that's what I think he meant :biggrin: . I think it's sad, but I always thought that the Amish got a choice to leave at 16/18 and experience the world, to see if they would rather be out of the community or stay in it. Even though it's hard, maybe that opportunity could be their chance out? Or maybe the tradition is more complicated than that?

[fenris]

I think he just means that in today's world, where things are changing and gays can be themselves(atleast, more than the Amish), the Amish lifestyle is very constricting and close minded.

Atleast, that's what I think he meant :biggrin: . I think it's sad, but I always thought that the Amish got a choice to leave at 16/18 and experience the world, to see if they would rather be out of the community or stay in it. Even though it's hard, maybe that opportunity could be their chance out? Or maybe the tradition is more complicated than that?

yes ... right ....

sorry ... a old man tried to speak english :-)

[Person66]

Odi you're right, at about that age they have "rumspringa" (pronounced rum-shpringa, meaning running wild in their Germanic language. They go out into the real world and experience all the forbidden things they can't do back in the community, then they get a choice to go back to the Amish community or they can leave and have a regular life.
However leaving is very hard as they have no contacts in the outside world and they'll have to leave their (often large and tight-knit) families forever.
There was even a reality show about it (in the U.S.) after American Idol (one of the first seasons)
I love Amsh Shoo-fly pie.

[Sylph]

yes ... right ....

sorry ... a old man tried to speak english :-)

You're not old 44 is the new 15 :3. You're english is actually pretty good. It also helps that I took lessons & speak a few different languages (not fluent though ) and can put sentences together and perceive what is trying to be said :biggrin: .

Odi you're right, at about that age they have "rumspringa" (pronounced rum-shpringa, meaning running wild in their Germanic language. They go out into the real world and experience all the forbidden things they can't do back in the community, then they get a choice to go back to the Amish community or they can leave and have a regular life.
However leaving is very hard as they have no contacts in the outside world and they'll have to leave their (often large and tight-knit) families forever.
There was even a reality show about it (in the U.S.) after American Idol (one of the first seasons)
I love Amsh Shoo-fly pie.

Hooray, paying attention in school pays off . Well technically, reading history/music books at lunch and then clumsily running back to class, cause I lost track of time reading. (Don't even get me started on playing music at lunch ) Very interesting, I couldn't imagine that lifestyle. I love my mid-atlantic islander lifestyle too much :tongue: .

[Inchante]

I think he just means that in today's world, where things are changing and gays can be themselves(atleast, more than the Amish), the Amish lifestyle is very constricting and close minded.

Atleast, that's what I think he meant :biggrin: . I think it's sad, but I always thought that the Amish got a choice to leave at 16/18 and experience the world, to see if they would rather be out of the community or stay in it. Even though it's hard, maybe that opportunity could be their chance out? Or maybe the tradition is more complicated than that?

The Amish can leave at any time they wish. But yes, in particular, there is something called Rumspringa, which is when a teen leaves the Amish community and lives in the modern world. Rumspringa can last from several months to several years. It is during that time that they have the greatest opportunity to chose whether they will join the Amish Church or leave the community.

I would say that, as far as gay rights are concerned, nationwide laws that punish homosexuality by beheading or stoning them in some Islamic countries would be the large dirty boulder with the highest top to it. The Amish are quite docile, really.

Though, in general, I have to thank Fenris for his comment. It certainly did pile another stone to "the top of stupidity, bigotry and contempt [for] humans".

Really, there is much to be admired in the Amish.

They have virtually no violence, no crime, do not believe in war, they are not materialistic, are self sufficient, and create far, far less pollution than the rest of us living in the modern world.

I came across this documentary following Amish teens on Rumspringa (by the way, their first language is Pennsylvania Dutch, which is more akin to German than English. Indeed, they still call the rest of us in America "the English"):

[pellaz]

my boy friends parents are very religious ( deacon in a fundamentalist church ), they live in a small rural town, they are ethnic, they maybe have a HS education.

My BF is VERY gay, since he was a child, he never experienced a day the closet.
the BF is more anti god than i but they dont force their religion on anyone
both of us visit the rents for Christmas

form the reference of being a parent myself i just cant see how these people dont support their children 101%, what animals are these people, who do they expect to do this if not the family.

[Sylph]

The Amish can leave at any time they wish. But yes, in particular, there is something called Rumspringa, which is when a teen leaves the Amish community and lives in the modern world. Rumspringa can last from several months to several years. It is during that time that they have the greatest opportunity to chose whether they will join the Amish Church or leave the community.

I would say that, as far as gay rights are concerned, nationwide laws that punish homosexuality by beheading or stoning them in some Islamic countries would be the large dirty boulder with the highest top to it. The Amish are quite docile, really.

Though, in general, I have to thank Fenris for his comment. It certainly did pile another stone to "the top of stupidity, bigotry and contempt [for] humans".

Really, there is much to be admired in the Amish.

They have virtually no violence, no crime, do not believe in war, they are not materialistic, are self sufficient, and create far, far less pollution than the rest of us living in the modern world.

I came across this documentary following Amish teens on Rumspringa (by the way, their first language is Pennsylvania Dutch, which is more akin to German than English. Indeed, they still call the rest of us in America "the English"):

I agree, but I don't think if they saw two guys doing the nasty, that they would just close the door back and go off whistling. They believe in man and woman relationships, primarily, so surely there would be some form of punishment against it? Like forced marriage or something akin.

We are somewhat similar, though less strict. About 100 or 150 years ago; Gays, Women who gossiped or talked back, and slaves were taken to what we call it here "The Docking Stool" and you'd be repeatedly dunked under water and held there until you agree to whatever the reason you're being dunked for. We also had those traps where you stick your arms and head through, and people would ridicule you and left you there for days until your punishment was over.

Though less severe than stoning and what not, it was used none-the-less in regards to people who didn't follow our rules(the old rules). We still have them today, but they aren't used anymore, as obviously time has gone on and new advancements have been made. But they show us every year what people had to go through, through reinactments at our old capital city(it's pretty abandoned now. Looks alot like a mini-london).

So i'm sure the Amish have rules against things, no matter how peaceful and effecient they are. :biggrin:

[Inchante]

I agree, but I don't think if they saw two guys doing the nasty, that they would just close the door back and go off whistling. They believe in man and woman relationships, primarily, so surely there would be some form of punishment against it? Like forced marriage or something akin.

We are somewhat similar, though less strict. About 100 or 150 years ago; Gays, Women who gossiped or talked back, and slaves were taken to what we call it here "The Docking Stool" and you'd be repeatedly dunked under water and held there until you agree to whatever the reason you're being dunked for. We also had those traps where you stick your arms and head through, and people would ridicule you and left you there for days until your punishment was over.

Though less severe than stoning and what not, it was used none-the-less in regards to people who didn't follow our rules(the old rules). We still have them today, but they aren't used anymore, as obviously time has gone on and new advancements have been made. But they show us every year what people had to go through, through reinactments at our old capital city(it's pretty abandoned now. Looks alot like a mini-london).

So i'm sure the Amish have rules against things, no matter how peaceful and effecient they are. :biggrin:

They don't have those forms of punishment in the Amish community. In one section of the documentary above, they talk about spanking. I think that would probably be the closest thing to violence they know. If two men were found together, they would be shunned from the community, and pushed out into the modern world, which would probably be better for them anyway.

The stocks and the docking stool would be considered cruel and unusual punishment, and thus would be illegal here. Just because they are an entirely different culture does not mean they are exempt from the laws which govern the rest of the country.

[Sylph]

my boy friends parents are very religious ( deacon in a fundamentalist church ), they live in a small rural town, they are ethnic, they maybe have a HS education.

My BF is VERY gay, since he was a child, he never experienced a day the closet.
both of us visit the rents for Christmas

form the reference of being a parent myself i just cant see how these people dont support their children 101%, what animals are these people, who do they expect to do this if not the family.

.

My brother's(2nd eldest) grand parents are both deeply involved in the church as well, his grandfather is the pastor. Women aren't allowed to speak, and it's rare to have a female pastor, but we have two. Anyway, we naturally are a small island, so it's like growing up in a town basically, so I can see where you're coming from and my brother's grandparents actually forbade me from seeing my brother, because I'm gay. When ever he begs me to come to his house(his grandparents live on the top level of their house), I have to hesitate, because I know his grandparents don't like me, especially his grandmother.

She treats me like I'm not a boy; "wash the dishes" "sweep the floor" "get me my purse" "does my hair look pretty?" "who does your eyebrows?" Things along these lines frustrate me, because If i'm not fighting a grizzly bear, with my hands tied behind my back, while chewing 6inch nails, then automatically I'm a girl to her and it's so irritating... she has more underarm hair than I do!! She does this because I come off as feminine(which I can't help) and my brother is the opposite of me. When we talk on the phone, they listen in and one time, his uncle thought I was a girl when he first met me! (part of the reason I cut off my hair)

This is an issue here, as it's primarily a black country, with the "traditional" black religion. It's probably an issue wherever there's a black community, not very friendly towards gays.

And I agree with you Pellaz about the parenting thing :3 .

[pellaz]

Rumspringa can last from several months to several years. It is during that time that they have the greatest opportunity to chose whether they will join the Amish Church or leave the community.

anyone can leave.