Domestic Disputes

[Sylph]

Ehh... The title seems kinda vague, but I couldn't find a way to word it, but here I go .

So you know how for years, girls have always gotten away with a slap or a knee to the family jewels right? Well, I was wondering, does this also apply to a gay couple as well?

I know it's wrong for a someone to hit their partner (vice versa), but it strikes me as alittle curious.

On T.v, you always see women hitting the men who get on their nerves or insult them (the latter is kind of justifiable), but is this because as women, they are historically defined as "meek" little things, so a hit from them shouldn't affect the man?

I don't know. I've never been hit before, but I've seen girls (some of whom were my classmates) give a guy a slap on the arm or a shove if he was being annoying or something.

A guy friend of mine told me girls can get away with murder(not literally), because as guys, we're told that hitting girls is wrong.

Could this also apply to a gay couple? We all know males have a tendency to get rough with each other (not sexual purvs! :p ), so could one male slap the other one without getting slapped back? I'm not sure about females, because violence usually comes after the words, which is usually opposite for males.

A good example to me would be from the Noah's Arc series, when Chance drops off Kenya to Eddy with T-Money and then Eddy brings up the incident previously where he cheated on Chance and Chance slaps him silly, though Eddy never hit Chance back (although they had crazy animal sex afterward :p ).

Is this because Eddy is the "guy" in the relationship(or so they keep trying to point out, like the "guys" night out on Noah and Wade's wedding night) and therefore cannot hit Chance because he is percieved to be the girl?

But in the movie, Eddy slaps Chance after he insults Eddy's old band, although they made it seem like a man hitting a woman, as Chance runs away crying, whereas when he slapped Eddy, he didn't even really seemed fazed.

It just seems curious. I'm not particularly violent, but I've smacked other guys from time to time, but have never been hit back (although one guy seemed to get aggressive, but not in a violent way, which is weird :confused: ). Is this because of my outward femininity, that something tells them not to hit me back, even though they know I'm a guy?

I'm just really curious, even though I don't encourage hitting or violence.

The only person to come close to anything violent towards me, was my father, because I hit him in the chest and he gripped my wrists tightly (he works out, so it hurt >.> ) but he didn't hit me, even though I would've whooped him :p . (Don't ask why I hit him, it's a loooong story )

What do you guys think?

(I realize there are some men today, who hit women, but that's not what I'm talking about though.)

[pellaz]

easy answer; never hit anyone, difficult issue is when someone hits you?

[mrk2010]

Any form of domestic violence is wrong end of.

[Sylph]

easy answer; never hit anyone, difficult issue is when someone hits you?

Any form of domestic violence is wrong end of.

I agree with both . I was just wondering how it could corrolate in a Gay relationship, because neither party is of the opposite sex, so there is no stigma against it, atleast not the same as if it were a man and woman.

Man hits woman = Woman beater/coward/etc
Woman hits man= Bitch/PMSing/etc

But what about when a man hits another man and they are in a relationship? Or the same for two women?

Straight guys always fight and straight women also get into fights every once in a while, so how is it seen when they are also in a relationship? Is it the same or something completely different?

We all know violence is wrong, but does gender have anything to do with it?

If I see a man hitting a woman, ofcourse I'm going to go and help or try to atleast, but if I were to see two men fighting, I probably wouldn't bat an eyelash, because it's not unusual, even for females sometimes. This is what I'm trying to get at.

Is domestic violence or violence in general between two men the same as between a man and a woman? It seems the scale tips more in favor of a woman who is in a violent situation than that of a man. This is probably why it's okay for girls now to hit guys, because no one deems it to be the same as a guy hitting a girl.

[East]

Domestic abuse in the gay community is as serious a problem as it is in the straight world but often unreported because of the stigma so many people feel about being gay and the very real fear of being ridiculed and dismissed..thus making it easier for the abuser to regain even more control. As with any kind of abuse it is about power and control...make no mistake about that...just as rape and molestation are about power and control...not sex.

There is the obvious physical abuse but mental, sexual and emotional abuse are as serious and often go hand in hand.

The abused person often is afraid and isolated as the abuser will systematically isolate the person from any kind of support system.

I understand this first hand because I ended up in a relationship that was abusive...textbook...and I was too embarrassed to say anything. The problem is that the abused person usually thinks it is their fault and the abuser does what they can to make sure their victim thinks it is their fault....

Conversely...if you are in a relationship and you hit your partner and you hear yourself say "They deserved it"...get some help quick. NO ONE "deserves it".

In San Francisco there are numerous resources to support the GLBT community dealing with domestic abuse...even 24 hour hotlines and temporary shelter,ect.

[pellaz]

If I see a man hitting a woman, of course I'm going to go and help or try to at least

Better to stay away and call 911 (police) because you just dont know the situation.
-Here in Colorado one of them could have a gun.
-The lady could really know what she is doing and the man could be reacting in self defense etc.

But what about when a man hits another man and they are in a relationship? Or the same for two women?

My current partner punched me in the face during an argument. Quite hard. I am easily twice his strength but choose to do nothing. I choose to forgive him but things like that never really go away. It is unacceptable to hit your partner. It is part of becoming an exceptional man as compared to just Joe the plumber.

We all know violence is wrong, but does gender have anything to do with it?

NO

This is probably why it's okay for girls now to hit guys,

It is NOT ok, you are not getting the idea. Always avoid domestic violence. If it comes your way stand down and leave.

[Rainbowmum]

It makes no difference ,no matter what relationship you are in.
There is no room for violence.

My husband can drive me up a wall, with annoyance, I have never raised a hand to him.

Thankfully things have changed on the gay front here , violence is violence , and the police treat it that way, as do the courts.

[Sylph]

I think I may have used the wrong words in the title...

I agree with you all, I don't condone violence, for anyone, but what I was really trying to get to was the fairness in regards to partners/couples and what constitutes as violent or just a little roughing up.

I think the title may have been off-putting, but I was kind of refering to what Pellaz said, how his partner hit him in an arguement, but chose not to retaliate.

I was trying to see whether or not a line can be drawn between a heterosexual couple and gay couple's ideology of a dispute as clearly things are different. However violence is a big no-no in any relationship, many people would not consider a man hitting another man to be the same as him hitting a woman.

Though this isn't always the case, it's particularly true in the black community, which is where I get my curiosity from. To be a black man, is to be tough and to not show emotion and blah blah blah(It is that way here, so I know for a fact, but maybe not everywhere). When a man hits a woman, he is usually the target for abuse from other males, but if he fights with another man, it's just guys being guys and nothing should be read into it, unless they're trying to seriously injure or kill the other.

So if two gay men were to get into a dispute in public, would people react the same as if it were a woman and a man getting into a dispute, or is it just guys being guys?

I want to know in your opinion what the general public's (whether it be in your area/country or not) consensus would be on this particular issue.

I know for a fact that here, if two men were to get into a dispute, no one would even care, mostly because they're guys. It would be different if it were a man and a woman, because men here hold women on a pedestal.

I'm 18 and the things I've seen would probably surprise and scar some of you, but it's something you learn to adapt to. There have been guys killed, because of disputes between them, and they weren't even gay, so what if they had been? Would anyone even care?

I maybe young, but momma didn't raise no fool :p , so you can rest assured that I can take care of myself, but I wanted to know how it is for you guys out there.

It's the fairness of judgement towards domestic disputes between couples, both gay and straight that I want to know. I probably should've made that the title ... .

Yes violence is bad, but where does the concept of domestic violence root from? Men and superiority complexes? And what makes things the way they are in regards to the equalism of violence and judgement thereof between same sexed couples and straight couples?

It's something that is quite prevalent in society today and being on a tiny island doesn't really give a grand idea, other than what you see on T.v which is usually over-dramaticized or under-dramaticized.

(Thanks for sharing your personal stories though , very interesting, however sad)

[Pix]

On T.v, you always see women hitting the men who get on their nerves or insult them (the latter is kind of justifiable) but is this because as women, they are historically defined as "meek" little things, so a hit from them shouldn't affect the man?

Examples? I admit I don't watch much TV, but the only real example that comes to mind is Buffy (in later seasons, in earlier seasons you had to seriously menace or attack her first or otherwise be an obvious mortal threat), and it was mostly Buffy herself who did it rather than any other females (not counting demons, robots, etc). I remember getting annoyed with Buffy in later seasons and also on Angel for acting as if her might made right. I thought it especially pathetic that she'd hit Angel over and over again (in Angel), especially over something so petty, and then look shocked and horrified when Angel finally returned the favor, as if she was some dainty thing (though I just refused to accept that as anything other than bad writing).

There's comedy, of course, especially in cartoons. It often gets slapstick, and I think women are more likely to hit than men in these shows. In part it's because women are less likely to be seen to hit (your view notwithstanding) so it's more of a surprise (like man bites dog, or as I saw once on Buffy, when a human bit a vampire), and yes, there is a cultural disposition to believe that a woman hitting a man is less serious because she's automatically weak and he automatically tough (which I personally find a disrespectful attitude, even if there is a grain of truth to it--one doesn't need superior strength to win a fight, let alone cause pain or injury). Because of this belief, a woman hitting a man is much more funny to the masses than a man hitting a woman, and I know there are men who find this offensive as they see it as a double standard, though I find it offensive because I consider it disrespectful of women's anger and power.

I don't know. I've never been hit before, but I've seen girls (some of whom were my classmates) give a guy a slap on the arm or a shove if he was being annoying or something.

I've seen that growing up, too (I've seen very little of that as an adult). It was kinda funny, like once a friend of mine punched a guy on the arm and then got mad because she hurt her fist (while he said he barely felt it) and then slapped his arm. We laughed. He laughed, too (I make no claim on whether or not his laughter was genuine or forced).

Of course the boys hit each other a lot, too, even friends. It was how they showed each other how tough they were.

And at least in an East Texas middle school I've even seen boys hit supposed friends in the balls (not hard, but hard enough to hurt) and laugh. And in one case a boy put a hammer between a guy's legs from behind and then against his testicles saying, "Make a wish." The boy panicked and jumped, hurting himself pretty bad, and the class pretty much laughed, and the teacher (male, in case you're wondering) just shrugged it off and told the hurt boy to "shake it off." Granted, that was more of an accident than malice, but I'd think such horsing around when it can cause injury like that wouldn't be tolerated. (OTOH, that male teacher was also a coach and the boy with the hammer was a jock, so that might've made a difference.)

A guy friend of mine told me girls can get away with murder(not literally), because as guys, we're told that hitting girls is wrong.

If you want to see a really good study on this, see if your library has Kill the Body, the Head Will Fall. Take the title, author, publication date, and ISBN number and the library should be able to borrow it from another library if they don't have it. This documents how women can be violent & abusive and how the law in the USA, Australia, etc, sometimes treats such crimes (and why).

As for personal experience, I was shunned by girls in my neighborhood from roughly age 6-10 and thus played with the boys. Boys often settled their differences in fights and I got pulled into that (and at that age there's very little physical difference between a boy and girl so it wasn't like I was at a disadvantage). But the attitudes were already there so that when a boy beat me up no one cared and he couldn't brag about it without looking pathetic, and when I beat a boy up he was teased for being beat up by a girl. And a couple of times parents (once a mom, once a dad) intervened and took a boy inside for a whipping for having hit me, which also discouraged them from hitting me. So as a result, boys were very hesitant to actually start a fight with me.

I personally didn't press my advantage as even then I had some sense of fairness and because I sensed that if I did I'd be shunned by the boys as well as the girls and thus be alone. Nevertheless, their impulse control was low (and I think sometimes they forgot I was a girl) and fights still happened (and though I don't recall ever throwing a first punch, I didn't hesitate to give back what I got).

Just before I turned 13 a boy kept goosing me on the butt when I was in a very foul mood and took delight in doing it even more intensely every time I told him to stop. Finally, half way up a stair, I turned around and kicked him in the face (in front of countless others who loved it). This spread like wildfire and I got both verbal and written thank yous by other girls he'd harassed (but they, unlike me, had NOT hit him). But I also got called to the office where the principal told me "boys will be boys" (so he was allowed to goose me whenever he wanted) and gave me in school suspension. So, no, I wasn't excused for being a girl (while he was excused for being a guy).

At 15 I successfully fought off 3 skinheads who cornered & attacked me (though I was horribly beaten in the process) and I was extremely popular with the anarchist punks who saw it. But then they mocked the skinheads mercilessly for 3 of them being driven off by me (and I was small for my age, I think all 3 were like at least a foot taller than me and definitely thicker). The skins retaliated by saying "girls didn't belong in the Pit" (which conveniently singled out me and the former skin chick they were mad at me over as the Pit was often so violent that most other girls stayed out of it anyway--indeed, I'd have never jumped in myself but a boy pushed me in as a joke and the adrenaline high was so intense that I took to jumping in again and again). I got stomped really hard in the Pit by skinheads which the punks retaliated over and that's when they told us girls weren't allowed in the pit anymore. One of the punks yelled the pit was anarchy and demanded to know what right they had to tell them who belonged or not, and a skinhead replied, "the white right of might!" and it got into a big fight (given that I was already beaten to hell I gladly skipped that fight, and would've skipped the fight with the 3 skins earlier had they not cornered me). But I'd say no, I didn't get away with beating up 3 skins. Heck, I hadn't even done anything to get attacked in the first place (I had no idea what they were accusing me of when they attacked, but it's a funny story, though entirely beside the point).

At 16 a jock got away with punching me in the face, but that's more about the privileged status of jocks than anything else. But the jock who punched me did get attacked by my male classmates who were offended that he punched a girl (and they DID get into trouble for having attacked a jock).

Make of if what you will.

Though if what you say is true then more women need to know about it. There are way too many women who are sexually harassed (and I've felt threatened more than once) and maybe if we all took advantage of this "immunity" to smack some guys around then maybe this harassment would stop. :tongue:

Could this also apply to a gay couple?

It's odd, but I've found that when there's a domestic violence in a lesbian relationship, and when there's a clear male-female dynamic, that it's generally assumed that the femme at least started it. I'm not sure why this is (nor how true it is, as social expectations and objective reality are often out of alignment), though it could be that studs and butches have to guard their rep a lot more than a man or femme does.

And some also believe in keeping such violence a secret as so many hets think we're messed up anyway that we should therefore do all we can to appear ridiculously perfect without all the same problems hets have to put up with. Of course even when someone gay tries to go for help they can find road blocks--for example, gay men might be denied access to a battered women's shelter (a security precaution to keep stalking men away from the women hiding from them by not allowing any male over 18 access) or a lesbian might be denied help by Christian workers. This all would contribute to allowing some level of domestic violence.

Oh, and then there's infamous cases like with Jeffrey Dahmer. A little boy he murdered escaped naked and drugged and 2 cops assumed it was a gay dispute thing and gave the naked little boy back to him despite his being unwilling (and he was the little brother of the boy Dahmer was on probation for molesting!) and Dahmer killed him after the cops left. There was a riot over this later, though that was racial (the boy was of Asian descent IIRC, and Dahmer, like the 2 cops, were white).

Is this because of my outward femininity, that something tells them not to hit me back, even though they know I'm a guy?

Perhaps. But in Texas when I was growing up in the 90s, a feminine guy would be tormented without mercy by other guys, and even by some girls.

If I see a man hitting a woman, ofcourse I'm going to go and help

Be very careful if you do this. It's not unknown for the woman you help to side with her abuser against her rescuer. One woman I know attacked a man publicly beating a woman only having to defend herself against BOTH of them when they both attacked her. And when the police get involved she could easily lie for her man against you making you appear to be the bad guy who assaulted them rather than coming to her rescue.

[zeon]

I think violence regardless shouldnt be tolerated if someone is annoying simple answer - walk away.. I dont think its acceptable to hit em regardless man n man woman n woman or man and woman love is about respecting not abusing