They are informed, and they don't give a shit. It's their belief. Being informed doesn't help anyone. I'm informed that I should probably go to the gym more. I'm informed that smoking kills people. I'm informed that I shouldn't throw pineapples at people. Yet, I refuse to do anything about that because that's who I am, and it's what I do. Well. I don't smoke...anymore. lol. But I'vve read the bible, i know what it says, so have all the other christians. There's no use in "informing" them anymore. Ignorance is bliss, man. It all depends on the person. I could show this video to anyone at my church back home, they wont give a shit, just the people who already accept gays or whoever for who they are. I dunno, I don't think this "problem" will ever go away. People will always hate other people. This is just something in our category.
I'm done in this thread. Thank you. Remember to tip your waitresses.
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Mrmatty376 Wrote:I don't see the point of this thread. We pretty much already went over all of this when someone asked about the suicide thing. You can't change people and there's nothing you can do to let them accept you. Over time, maybe people will be more tolerant, but that's the best it will get. And it's not just christians, you people seem to target them mostly, but there are other religions that don't accept the same things. There are countries and stuff that don't even allow it, which is way worse.
Anywho, I'm just saying it's kinda stupid to try to turn a rock into a brick of gold. It's not like you people don't judge them. Kinda stupid to be hypocritical to the hypocrites.
Sorry if i sound a little pissed. It just bugs me that people get into this. My best friend is a christian and I don't like other people putting him into a group which you guys dislike. He doesn't have a problem with gay people. His aunts are lesbians and both of us are friends other gay people. I dunno, it's a religion, an opinion, and your stupid for trying to change people. That goes for all parties.
By this logic no one would ever change their minds, and no one would defect to the other side... Not all humans are unmovable and stubborn, for one thing, and some are also sufficiently curious to try to see the other side. Case in point, my mother (she had two gay sons, poor mum!): a devout Christian, and a good one I might add, in my eyes. She initially thought this couldn't happen in her family, and wouldn't even discuss it, then looked at the facts, read books, took counsel, and finally ended up being our staunchest supporter, even in her own church... She changed her mind and was sensitive to the logic and the facts., and to the message of love being the most important thing. I'm sure there are plenty of other Christians like her, people who just need to come across the right sort of knowledge and evidence. They can't all be blind to what's going on around them.
You've got to have some faith in some sections of mankind.
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Mrmatty376 Wrote:I don't see the point of this thread. We pretty much already went over all of this when someone asked about the suicide thing. You can't change people and there's nothing you can do to let them accept you. Over time, maybe people will be more tolerant, but that's the best it will get. And it's not just christians, you people seem to target them mostly, but there are other religions that don't accept the same things. There are countries and stuff that don't even allow it, which is way worse.
Anywho, I'm just saying it's kinda stupid to try to turn a rock into a brick of gold. It's not like you people don't judge them. Kinda stupid to be hypocritical to the hypocrites.
Sorry if i sound a little pissed. It just bugs me that people get into this. My best friend is a christian and I don't like other people putting him into a group which you guys dislike. He doesn't have a problem with gay people. His aunts are lesbians and both of us are friends other gay people. I dunno, it's a religion, an opinion, and your stupid for trying to change people. That goes for all parties.
So Matthew, what was your point exactly??? You are annoyed that we put all Christians in the same bag? We don't, and neither does this young man, apparently. Agreed, there will always be people who resist the evidence, but in the same sway there will always be people who will some day be enlightened or have an epiphany.
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I think this is such a hard topic for me because of the fact that I'm bi and Christian. I feel like a living paradox, but I don't think that I'm condemned to hell because of my sexuality.
The Bible clearly states that being gay is a sin, and I still believe that. The Bible also states that no sin is greater than another, so being gay is no worse than being a murderer or a liar or a cheater or an adulterer.
The Bible also states to love your neighbors as yourself.
I don't know about you guys, but I don't see what kind of neighbors the Bible is talking about. The Bible never says, "Love your straight neighbors as yourself." I believe that "neighbors" refers to everyone and anyone, gay or straight.
I don't think gays specifically are condemned to hell. Gay or straight, we ALL are condemned to hell in the beginning. But anyone with faith in God will go to heaven. Gay or straight. If you believe in God and trust in Him and love Him truly, you'll go to heaven, regardless of your sexuality.
So many Christians tend to bag on gays, and I don't get it. Straight people aren't any better than gay people. We're all the same. The Christians that openly bag on gays makes me shake my head. The message of the gospel is that there is good news! And Christians are meant to spread the gospel. We aren't here to belittle other people and act as though we're greater.
Who are you to judge, as a Christian? If you were truly a Christian, you would know that the ultimate judge is God. You have no place in judging others. The hate that the church has towards gays is what drives gays away from the church, and that's exactly the opposite of what we're supposed to do.
It's hard discussing this for me because I sound so contradictory as a bisexual Christian. I believe that homosexuality is a sin, but I do not in any way condemn homosexuals. I believe that homosexuals are still humans and deserve rights. We as Christians have no place to judge or belittle homosexuals. And gays CAN go to heaven! Not every single gay is condemned to hell.
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toxiccriminal Wrote:I think this is such a hard topic for me because of the fact that I'm bi and Christian. I feel like a living paradox, but I don't think that I'm condemned to hell because of my sexuality.
The Bible clearly states that being gay is a sin, and I still believe that. The Bible also states that no sin is greater than another, so being gay is no worse than being a murderer or a liar or a cheater or an adulterer.
The Bible also states to love your neighbors as yourself.
I don't know about you guys, but I don't see what kind of neighbors the Bible is talking about. The Bible never says, "Love your straight neighbors as yourself." I believe that "neighbors" refers to everyone and anyone, gay or straight.
I don't think gays specifically are condemned to hell. Gay or straight, we ALL are condemned to hell in the beginning. But anyone with faith in God will go to heaven. Gay or straight. If you believe in God and trust in Him and love Him truly, you'll go to heaven, regardless of your sexuality.
So many Christians tend to bag on gays, and I don't get it. Straight people aren't any better than gay people. We're all the same. The Christians that openly bag on gays makes me shake my head. The message of the gospel is that there is good news! And Christians are meant to spread the gospel. We aren't here to belittle other people and act as though we're greater.
Who are you to judge, as a Christian? If you were truly a Christian, you would know that the ultimate judge is God. You have no place in judging others. The hate that the church has towards gays is what drives gays away from the church, and that's exactly the opposite of what we're supposed to do.
It's hard discussing this for me because I sound so contradictory as a bisexual Christian. I believe that homosexuality is a sin, but I do not in any way condemn homosexuals. I believe that homosexuals are still humans and deserve rights. We as Christians have no place to judge or belittle homosexuals. And gays CAN go to heaven! Not every single gay is condemned to hell.
You are, indeed, a little confused, or illogical, or contradictory. I find it interesting to note that while you can't really give a definition to the word "neighbour", you still manage to say that the Bible says homosexuality is a sin... Where are the words to corroborate that? And aren't those words just as likely to mean something else, as the word Neighbour (which seems quite clear to me, but maybe that's just me!)? If the word neighbour can be read to mean something a bit more general than the people who live in your vicinity, your street, your village, and so maybe it means your fellow human being, well then, is it just possible that whatever you take to mean that homosexuality is a sin, actually refers to some other form of misdeed? After all we are talking in Parablespeak, in Symbolspeak. Homosexuality is a state, not just deeds. If God created all humans in his image then can he have made some humans with flaws and others not? But the Bible also teaches that we are all sinners, therefore all somehow flawed. It is the admission of non perfection. Does it mean that God has decided to hate some human beings and not others? Well what about people born with handicaps, or physical defects? Does God hate them because they are not perfect? Does it mean that God likes diversity? And maybe He loves all this diversity, and all His creatures?
In the words of the Genesis, I think I remember that once the world was created, God saw that everything was GOOD. I don't think it takes much of a stretch of the imagination to believe, by those words, that even gays are good and part of a divine plan. (I think you agree with that point).
We already know what sins are, even if we don't believe in a God. They are those things that make life with our fellow human beings, the other species on earth and our planet unbearable. Hate, ostracism, war, greed, pollution surely... You name it, there's a whole catalogue going there.
The notion of sin ought to make us understand that we are not perfect but that we strive for perfection. Isn't it the only way that we can explain our need for progress? Does any other animal on earth make the kind of progress that humans make? Is it this superior intelligence that makes us think that we're more godly? That very same intelligence that is sometimes our downfall (cunning)? Something to think about.
So, Toxiccriminal, what exactly is it about being gay that is sinful to you? Physical contact between two people of the same sex? How far does that go? No touching? No eyeing? No caressing? No kissing? No hugging? I won't even go into sexual contact, which must surely be off-limits.... But then again, didn't God create this sexuality and these ways to fulfill it? Surely if he didn't want homosexuals to be attracted to people of the same sex, he'd have created eunuchs instead? No, really, I'd like to know what you'll allow yourself to do.
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toxiccriminal Wrote:... The Bible also states ... what if there are a thousand versions of the bible and a million religions. dont be so literal, think for your self.
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princealbertofb Wrote:You are, indeed, a little confused, or illogical, or contradictory. I find it interesting to note that while you can't really give a definition to the word "neighbour", you still manage to say that the Bible says homosexuality is a sin... Where are the words to corroborate that? And aren't those words just as likely to mean something else, as the word Neighbour (which seems quite clear to me, but maybe that's just me!)? If the word neighbour can be read to mean something a bit more general than the people who live in your vicinity, your street, your village, and so maybe it means your fellow human being, well then, is it just possible that whatever you take to mean that homosexuality is a sin, actually refers to some other form of misdeed? After all we are talking in Parablespeak, in Symbolspeak. Homosexuality is a state, not just deeds. If God created all humans in his image then can he have made some humans with flaws and others not? But the Bible also teaches that we are all sinners, therefore all somehow flawed. It is the admission of non perfection. Does it mean that God has decided to hate some human beings and not others? Well what about people born with handicaps, or physical defects? Does God hate them because they are not perfect? Does it mean that God likes diversity? And maybe He loves all this diversity, and all His creatures?
In the words of the Genesis, I think I remember that once the world was created, God saw that everything was GOOD. I don't think it takes much of a stretch of the imagination to believe, by those words, that even gays are good and part of a divine plan. (I think you agree with that point).
We already know what sins are, even if we don't believe in a God. They are those things that make life with our fellow human beings, the other species on earth and our planet unbearable. Hate, ostracism, war, greed, pollution surely... You name it, there's a whole catalogue going there.
The notion of sin ought to make us understand that we are not perfect but that we strive for perfection. Isn't it the only way that we can explain our need for progress? Does any other animal on earth make the kind of progress that humans make? Is it this superior intelligence that makes us think that we're more godly? That very same intelligence that is sometimes our downfall (cunning)? Something to think about.
So, Toxiccriminal, what exactly is it about being gay that is sinful to you? Physical contact between two people of the same sex? How far does that go? No touching? No eyeing? No caressing? No kissing? No hugging? I won't even go into sexual contact, which must surely be off-limits.... But then again, didn't God create this sexuality and these ways to fulfill it? Surely if he didn't want homosexuals to be attracted to people of the same sex, he'd have created eunuchs instead? No, really, I'd like to know what you'll allow yourself to do.
In my opinion, "neighbor" was used as people around you. Meaning, anyone and everyone. Maybe I'm interpreting that incorrectly, but that's how I see it.
On the handicapped and flawed, I don't know what God thinks. I don't want to say what His intentions are and have it be incorrect. I've heard it all began with Adam and Eve eating the apple, and perhaps that's true, or perhaps God intended things to be this way. I don't know. However, I do believe that He loves everyone, regardless of their flaws.
Homosexuality is a sin because it states that in the Bible. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."
As a bisexual, I don't know whether or not I will decide to become sexually active with men. I will admit that I lust, but that's something I need to ask God to forgive me for.
Again, I'm still shaky on this myself. Hopefully I haven't offended you (or anyone else). My faith and my sexuality are still things I need to work on; they're just so contradictory. :frown:
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Of course the most obvious explanation is that the Bible is not divinely inspired after all but the mostly worthless mutterings and superstitions of warlike savages with some opportunistic cultists adding in the New Testament and since then society has evolved and we (who couldn't just toss the Bible in the rubbish where it belonged as religion lives in a part of the brain that's not susceptible to reason) have tried to civilize God as well and thus create the confusion and conflict of today as bronze age superstition fights against the modern secular values given to us by the Enlightenment and everybody pointing to the parts of the Bible that validates their worldview and ignoring the rest.
Just saying. :tongue:
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I'm not religious...but
Quote:The Bible clearly states that being gay is a sin, and I still believe that.
The bible was written as man's interpretation of what god may/may not have said.
Have you asked God if it is a sin or are you going to continue to believe what a human being wrote because it is a sin to wear wool and cotton at the same time isn't it...surely your god isn't that stupid...but human beings time and time again have proven to be that stupid AND more.
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I might be a little late to the party, but this is a topic I care about so I will add my 2 cents.
I was raised in a VERY traditional Christian home, we went to church every week, Sunday school, etc.
I didn't discover who I really am sexually until my early 20's. I can't imagine though, that God hates me because I am attracted to men.
I was raised to believe and still believe that God loves his children. I am one of them, and he created me the way I am. If you believe in the divinity of God you must unless you just have an unreasonable hatred of non traditional sexually oriented people believe that God intended some of us to be different. If God created us differently, and God is omnipotent, then we are by definition part of God's plan and therefore Devine as we were created.
That's my opinion.
As for this young man, I think he's very courageous and also very eloquent and he shows a great mind at work, which is something I think is not appreciated enough in our society. Good for him.
Richard
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The Christian vs gay debate (taking into account what the Bible supposedly says)
