hate goups in congress

[victoria]

THE gop you cant fix stupid passed a bill against women and the lbgt community now is going to spend 10 million dollars on racist ads wake up you log cabin and get out of the GOP or you become the problem

[fredv3b]

How would Log Cabin Republicans leaving the GOP help passage of the bill without these amendments?


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[East]

I could make a detailed post with many examples equally or even more disturbing but lets start and stop with Texas and their GOP Platform which includes the following...

Homosexuality – We believe that the practice of homosexuality tears at the fabric of society, contributes to the breakdown
of the family unit, and leads to the spread of dangerous, communicable diseases. Homosexual behavior is contrary to the
fundamental, unchanging truths that have been
ordained by God, recognized by our country’s founders, and shared by the majority of Texans. Homosexuality must not be
presented as an acceptable “alternative” lifestyle in our public education and policy, nor should “family” be redefined to
include homosexual “couples.” We are opposed to any granting of special legal entitlements, refuse to recognize, or grant
special privileges including, but not limited to: marriage between persons of the same sex (regardless of state of origin),
custody of children by homosexuals, homosexual partner insurance or retirement benefits. We oppose any criminal or civil
penalties against those who oppose homosexuality out of faith, conviction, or belief in traditional values.
Texas Sodomy Statutes – We oppose the legalization of sodomy. We demand that Congress exercise its authority
granted by the U.S. Constitution to withhold jurisdiction from the federal courts from cases involving sodomy.

So to address the question "Why" should the Log Cabin Repuiblicans leave the GOP? They shouldn't...but make no mistake they are my enemy and the enemy of everyone who beleives in equality. This is their PLATFORM....the one they support. They can pretend it isn't there or ignore it and I understand some of them even agree with the platform.....it is quite clear exactly what their goal is...as stated above.... and I don't have to pretend they dont' support this crap.

The GOP has been and will continue to use racist and homophobic ads...it is a GOP standard here in this country and the Republicans have little problem with it or if they do they are silent about it. Romney donated 10,000 to a group whose mission is to drive a wedge and create conflict between the Black and Gay Communities.

[fredv3b]

If everyone left a political party if they failed to agree with every plank of the party platform there would be no meaningful political parties. Why should the Log Cabin Republicans keep to a standard of ideological purity that no-one else does? In politics one must frequently be less than fully open and honest about ones beliefs. Obama's return to believing in gay-marriage is a case in point.

The GOP is a fact of life and will be for many years to come. I simply do not find it credible that gay-rights will be most quickly achieved by the Democrats in the face of united opposition of the GOP. Someone needs to divide the GOP, someone needs to rescue it from the religious right, even if all it means is that internal division led to the GOP failing to stop the Democrats passing gay-rights legislation.


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[East]

The GOP is going further to the right...the SANE and fair minded Republicans are being pushed out of office by the more conservative hard liners in a majority of the states and they are actively trying to turn back the clock socially....they think they have a mandate from God...so did the 911 terrorists... Their sole objective in Congress as stated by them is to say NO to everything and to make sure Obama is a one term President...so much for governing.:mad: I am saddened by Olympia Snowe's decision to leave...what a HUGE LOSS for all of us. The Northeast and the West Coast have moderate GOP members and politicians who are fiscally conservative and socially moderate or even liberal....but the rest of the country is going in the opposite direction fueled by the 24/7 disinformation machine Fox News.

At this point I am willing to support dividing the US into two or maybe three countries. I have suspected for many years now that the division is way too deep to overcome. When a set of lawmakers only objective is to say NO...the system is broken. I definitely would have no objection to California, Washington, Oregon and Hawaii becoming a separate country...it has been suggested quite alot in the past couple of years.

[fredv3b]

Many thanks for your reply but I would be grateful if you would answer my questions.

Why should the Log Cabin Republicans leave the GOP because they disagree with some of the planks of the platform, when other groups in similar positions don't?

Why will gay-rights be most quickly advanced in the face of united opposition from the GOP?


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[Pix]

I understand the idea of trying to change the GOP from within, and those who stick true to that without excusing their party's hate has my support...that said, I can't understand how any of them could possibly vote for the typical Republican in 2012 when the GOP has practically declared war on gays and women. That is, I really hope they don't vote Republican in 2012 because doing that means they'll get no respect from the GOP and that will lessen (more like negate!) any chance they have of changing the GOP's direction.

I even know heterosexual (moderate) Republicans who (because of their party turning away from practical issues like jobs that Republicans promised to focus on in 2010 but instantly abandoned upon achieving office to focus on putting women and gays down and pandering to the Christian Right) are voting against the GOP in 2012! When I know even straight white male Republicans who can't overlook the new focus of the GOP then I don't see the excuse anyone else has for tolerating it (and I consider a few gays working with Republicans to be downright Quislings, though I save that label for the really blatant ones like the gay adviser who helped Perry make a homophobic ad).

[East]

Why should the Log Cabin Republicans leave the GOP because they disagree with some of the planks of the platform, when other groups in similar positions don't?

Well...if you read my initial response I said:

So to address the question "Why" should the Log Cabin Republicans leave the GOP? They shouldn't...

If you want me to elaborate...I think freedom of choice is important whether it be in the womb...the bedroom..or the voting booth. I can promise you that I would not vote for a politician on a state level if any of that discriminatory language was presented as part of the platform. On a national level I have voted against someone many times...the lesser of two evils. I am not a Democrat or a Republican though...I am an Independent Liberal who most closely associates with the Green Party BECAUSE I like their platform. IF the Democrats wrote something like the Republican Texas GOP's platform I would actively boycott them. They (Dems) may not all support gay equality BUT except for a few they likely do not support enshrining discrimination into the constitution...Republicans...except for a few... do.

I ask you what group in a similar position doesn't? I am assuming that you are talking about gay rights? If so...I can't think of another example. All I can say is to state again that if any party violated a basic principle I held close to me I would not support them.

For instance...I am a feminist...If the Democrats wanted to grant full equality to gay people AND sought to control what a woman does with her body...I would side with the women and not support them because that would violate a basic principle I have. Perhaps equality is not a basic principle or important enough for the Log Cabin group...which is fine really...I don't have to like it.


Why will gay-rights be most quickly advanced in the face of united opposition from the GOP?

Plenty of Republicans in states such as Washington, California, Vermont, New Hampshire, New York...on and on...support gay rights....there is NOT united opposition...we are talking a very regional game here and regional is the key word.

The MAJORITY of the states do NOT support gay equality ...the Republicans (and some Democrats) in these states do NOT...they claim to be doing "God's Work" When interracial marriage was passed....it was NOT because the majority of Americans supported it...it was quite the opposite. The best chance we have for quickly advancing is on a Federal Level and that is NOT with a Republican anytime soon. They all campaigned with a promise to enshrine discrimination into our Constitution (with the exception of Huntsman)

I am curious, however, as to what other groups you are referring to that are in similar positions?

[fredv3b]

All I can say is to state again that if any party violated a basic principle I held close to me I would not support them.

You may be happy voting for a minor party, however many people want their vote to 'count'; not be a protest vote. Similarly, many who are involved in politics want to change actual laws and government policy not merely protest. In America that means choosing either the Republican or Democratic parties; even if both violate your principles. You may wish to stick rigidly to your principles; however rigidly sticking to ones principles is an unaffordable luxury in successful politics.

For instance...I am a feminist...If the Democrats wanted to grant full equality to gay people AND sought to control what a woman does with her body...I would side with the women and not support them because that would violate a basic principle I have.

East, if you want a place at the table when Democrat policy is decided then you can't simply leave if you don't like the policy decision. Getting involved in party politics is for the long-term and accepting what you disagree with as the price for what you agree with and the hope of changing it later.

Perhaps equality is not a basic principle or important enough for the Log Cabin group...which is fine really...I don't have to like it.

It's not enough for you either, you also require a woman's 'right to choose'.

Plenty of Republicans in states such as Washington, California, Vermont, New Hampshire, New York...on and on...support gay rights....there is NOT united opposition...we are talking a very regional game here and regional is the key word.

I take that as an admission that where Republicans fail to oppose the Democrats unitedly the Democrats make more progress on gay-rights.

If so then why would geographically widening that disunity (even if not nation wide) not be an instance of Log Cabin Republicans helping achieve equality? And if they fail would it not have been worth a shot?

I am curious, however, as to what other groups you are referring to that are in similar positions?

I was not thinking of gay-rights groups. The most obvious example is the religious right. They may set their political litmus tests but if the party selects a candidate who fails one of these tests they do not leave the party, they are still there to fight the fight again the next time around.


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[fredv3b]

I understand the idea of trying to change the GOP from within, and those who stick true to that without excusing their party's hate has my support...that said, I can't understand how any of them could possibly vote for the typical Republican in 2012 when the GOP has practically declared war on gays and women. That is, I really hope they don't vote Republican in 2012 because doing that means they'll get no respect from the GOP and that will lessen (more like negate!) any chance they have of changing the GOP's direction.

There are far too few Log Cabin Republicans for the GOP to care at all about how they actually vote. What matters is what they say and how they say it.


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