Primalism/Instinctualism in Human Nature

[Sylph]

Kay, Hi guys mile:.

Before I even start, I’d like to say, yes, Humans on a systemic level are very complex and I totally believe in multiple shades of diversity, rather than black and white, but for this topic, I’m going to make it black and white, just so I can understand better in my head. [Cause I can be daft sometimes :p ].

~

So recently, like yesterday, I came across a guy who was the typical guy, dominant, full of bravado and basically macho. I myself, as some or most of you very well know, am quite girlish or feminine in regards to my behavior and even mentality and I won’t even go into the full details of why or how, but just so you know that upfront.

Like I was saying before I rudely interrupted myself :p , I met this guy and he had an air about him, that just said; “I’m the guy/ I’m the Alpha” .

Now in nature, as I know from my observations and general study of animals, there’s almost always an Alpha in practically every animal society, especially in the more intelligent and group orientated animals, usually the male. [Notice our human history, as we have almost always had a ruler or leader in some sense, which was usually a man]

As Humans, we are very complex organisms, one of the most fascinating animals to ever literally and figuratively walk the earth, but are we really as complex as we make ourselves out to be?

Sure, we may be unique and individualistic, especially in comparison to other species that cannot do what we do, but are we so different from the animals that we share our world with?

The guy that I met would not let me take control of a situation, that was minor really, but the fact that I let him take the lead, makes me question how societal hierarchy affects our everyday life and what determines who or what is in control of the moment and why.

Is it the voice? The body language? Subconscious awareness, absent from conscious realizations and rationalizations?

Sure, it seems complicated, but is it really not a primal thing that people refuse to see? A male lion takes over from the female lions when he is ready to eat and the females, however grudgingly, relinquish the meal to him, based on what seems to be an internal hierarchal understanding.

Humans, however complex, are still animals and many people refuse to accept the fact that we are anything possibly less than what we are, even though all animals are equally and holistically important to the environment and deserve equal respect and love.

Many things we do are complex perhaps, but what guides the complexity? Touching on another topic briefly, the Human mind is indeed an extremely complex and enigmatic thing, but what guides our thoughts?

When we are born, we are essentially blank slates, not necessarily dumb, but we know nothing, so we aren’t exactly very self-sufficient in that regard.

As babies, it’s instinctual it seems, to cry when you’re hungry, because you know no other form of garnering what you want to convey, as you know nothing.

But, as we get older, we learn from emulation, which is also instinctual, as most animals learn from their parents or from watching others of their species or even just be trial and error.

We also sense danger very well, even though we are now taught to see the danger in everything.

Now, it isn’t so much the fact that we’re primal per se, but in the general sense, instinctual, which is a primal intuitive nature to most animals, which can vary greatly from person to person and animal to animal.

I’m not sure what I’m trying to ask or convey, but I believe that, from watching animals and learning their different natures, I see we aren’t as different as we claim to be.

To touch on sexuality, in the animal kingdom, I think it’s safe to say that a vast majority is heterosexual. Obviously this has to be instinctual on some systemic level, otherwise why would a male animal court/ be attracted to a female of it’s species? But then again, it’s believed that most animals are born bisexual in nature, to some degree, whether it be blatantly sexual or the tolerance and cohabitation of those of both the same and opposite sex.

A good example would be the Bonobo Monkey, which are a very blatantly bisexual species of animal, frequently having sex with both the same and opposite sex, even just to have sex sometimes. They are very co-habitable, their bisexuality being the reason for this and rarely ever fight.

So obviously Homosexuality and all it’s related side-drama[Masc/Fem/Drag/etc] must have something to do with our internal instincts, telling us what we like and don’t like.

Although, choice is something that’s exhibited quite often in Humans [though not exclusive to], so instincts can be altered, though never changed.

It’s quite interesting in an age now, where many people are dis-connected from both each other and themselves, in the quest for; more money, power, privilege, recognition, status, fame, intelligence[which isn’t necessarily a bad thing], and everything else.

Though these things may be or seem important and will advance us [or possibly break us] as a whole, I think it’s quite sad that so many people are absorbed in living a life cut-off from nature and the things surrounding them.

Between Alcohol [and other drugs], Sex, Money and Supremacy, people are very apathetic towards life, in the sense that they do not “see”.

Even myself, I enjoy getting away from the world once in a while, going on the computer and what not, but I always try to get back into nature and frequently go with the flow [which has earned me names, such as; obnoxious, ditzy, flower-child, weirdo, etc.] of nature and of course my mind and my inner thoughts.

I believe that, even though we are so complex and advanced, the quest for the things I listed above, along with our relations with the animal and natural world, leads me to believe that we are actually more primal than complex it seems.

And in the end, not to say the things we have aren’t good, as quite a few things, such as the computer and television are very beneficial in connecting our various nations, some things are very destructive to people.

Drugs leading to predation from other people [date rape/ homicidal overdose], alcohol impairing judgment, money causing greed and struggles and supremacy bringing forth bigotry and causing injustice and basic social upheaval.

A question that just tickled my brain as I wrote the above statement. Are we instinctually then, programmed to be ironically primal in our complex nature or does our complex nature cause our primal nature to emerge, causing us to instinctively be the way we are?
~

I hope I made sense in some way or fashion, but this topic has been tickling my pretty pink brain into exhaustion .

I really don’t mean to offend anyone, as this is really Academic and nothing personal. If you like to do what you do, then keep on doing it. This is not to put any one on the spot or make what you do or like seem like blasphemy.

Also, I am not on any drugs, nor am I really a hippie, but I have always been an odd child/individual. An observer and a thinker, as many people have described me. Thinking is something I find to be very important and I frequently think of outcomes to various situations, before they happen sometimes and the what ifs and hows.

A tactician or strategist of sorts if you will [I’ve always loved board games & card games], so topics like these are always floating around in my brain, though I tend to keep them to myself. Mostly because people don’t like or understand it and generally and historically, people do not like things they cannot or will not understand and/or accept.

But in this instance, I would like to get you all’s reactions and opinions, however biased or if you disagree. It’s merely food for thought. .

Isn’t thinking about stuff fabulous? .

[pellaz]

i did a google search ( heridtary emotional response )

the google response above i thought interesting but sorta base outdated.

interesting topic, I bet there are many experts but actually not much is known for example keep in mind homosexuality was considered a psychiatric affliction till abut 1970

[Sylph]

i did a google search ( heridtary emotional response )

the google response above i thought interesting but sorta base outdated.

interesting topic, I bet there are many experts but actually not much is known for example keep in mind homosexuality was considered a psychiatric affliction till abut 1970

That's also interesting.

Some believe that you turn out in some way or fashion like your parents, even if you weren't raised by them, because their genetics are inside of you.

So Hereditary influences may actually be a possiblity in regards to Human instinctualism and why we do the things we do and what determines how we do it.


But yes, there are experts and I certainly am no where close :tongue: .

Though, I always thought homosexuality was disliked for the reason of animalistic nature in general, because if man saw a male animal mounting a female animal, in their minds, they must've thought; "This must be how it's supposed to be", not taking into consideration[through the same observation] that some animals are bisexual and even monogamously homosexual.

[LateBloomer]

Carl Jung wrote a little bit about our "instinctual" side.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Jung

His whole approach addresses the "dual nature" of the human brain.

Literal/rational vs. figurative/irrational.

Or, "instinct" vs. learned behavior.

Or, Divine vs. Earthly.

The basic idea is we need to seek a balance between the two (whatever force or element is in question) otherwise we become neurotic when they're out of balance.

[Sylph]

Carl Jung wrote a little bit about our "instinctual" side.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Jung

His whole approach addresses the "dual nature" of the human brain.

Literal/rational vs. figurative/irrational.

Or, "instinct" vs. learned behavior.

Or, Divine vs. Earthly.

The basic idea is we need to seek a balance between the two (whatever force or element is in question) otherwise we become neurotic when they're out of balance.

Very interesting.

Kinda speechless, because this sort of hits the nail on the head of what I was trying to figure out.

I think the Instinct Vs Learned behaviour arguement is something that is the most relatable and the one that I think is something that is quite interesting.

Because like I stated at above, we are born blank slates, but as we get older we watch and emulate, therefore "learning behaviour", good and bad. But is this not our instincts telling us we need to learn and adapt?

Sort of like the Octopus. It essentially doesn't know how to do most things, even work it's legs, but as it learns, it adapts and solves difficult problems, such as mazes and what not, to get past the problem. But what tells it to learn? Is it instinctual to learn for survival's sake, or is it just something that happens accidentally[even though most octopi are pre-meditators, like most spiders and hunters].

It's definitely a topic that interests me. Because I see so many relationships between Humans and Animals, even though we are so complex...

Though, I'm just a weirdo so

[LateBloomer]

I'm more interested in our "dual nature" and seeking balance than I am in questions of instinct.

So...to be honest, I didn't really pay that much attention when I came across it in Jung's writings.

But I appreciate the "gravity" of your questions. I wish I could add more to the discussion. I guess at my age I've lost a little curiosity and I've simply become comfortable with the idea that we, as humans, cannot explain EVERYTHING.

Personally, I'm happy with a little mystery in life.

Why does the baby know how to suck?
Why do the salmon return to the same river in which they hatched?
Why do the geese fly north every summer?

I don't know! I'm just glad they do.

[Sylph]

I'm more interested in our "dual nature" and seeking balance than I am in questions of instinct.

So...to be honest, I didn't really pay that much attention when I came across it in Jung's writings.

But I appreciate the "gravity" of your questions. I wish I could add more to the discussion. I guess at my age I've lost a little curiosity and I've simply become comfortable with the idea that we, as humans, cannot explain EVERYTHING.

Personally, I'm happy with a little mystery in life.

Why does the baby know how to suck?
Why do the salmon return to the same river in which they hatched?
Why do the geese fly north every summer?

I don't know! I'm just glad they do.

Well, I too like a little mystery in life, but unfortunately, I like to solve them even more :biggrin: . My last AP[Advanced Placement] English teacher told me that I would never truely understand the small things, because I think too far ahead and too deep.

I was like; , because I view myself and pretty obnoxious and oblivious...

But yes, I don't think we'll be capable to answer or solve everything, because we obviously weren't meant to. In addition to my keen interest in knowledge and intellect in general, I'm also a spiritual Agnostic, mostly believing in nature and all of it's wonderful simplicity mile: .

Also, I do know the answers to your questions, but I will let it remain a mystery for you mile: .

I'm not so much interested in instincts per se, as I am in general human nature and the enigmatic phenomenon that is our brains and why we are so intelligent, or if we are really intelligent at all?

I guess in my obliviousness, I can be a deep thinker :biggrin: , although I'm usually rather simplistic.

Not to mention... all this thinking will cause wrinkles and I'm far to fabulous for that lol.