Do you believe in God?

[dfiant]

Please put this down to my ignorance, but I thought the whole point of paganism was that they didn't believe in God? :confused:

Paganism was around a long time before Christianity and the bible, some would say that the bible is a corruption of Paganism.

Paganism

[fenris]

Please put this down to my ignorance, but I thought the whole point of paganism was that they didn't believe in God? :confused:

mile: She can believe in God ....
As pagan you can believe in anything you want.... god, godesses.... Spirits... or like me.. the great goddess, you can go your own way.... and you can use anything from other religions what is important for your own life.
Important is only one thing: "Do what you want but don´t harm anyone... include yourself" Sounds very easy... but ... it is really hard.
You have to live with nature .... not against... that means : no racism, nothing against the free will of someone, no violence
By example : Homosexuality is given by nature..... so you can´t be against it.
Your skin-color is given by nature .... so you can´t be rassistic....
You can believe in god ... but not in christian rules and the christian churches....

[Rainbowmum]

Namaste Fenris ,

I also believe in the great Goddess , to me my Goddess is God.
As a pagan I am one with her wishes those of mother earth , my Goddess goes by many ancient names.

We follow her and make sure we harm no creatures to survive, our blessings and ways are simple, yet we want for nothing.

We do not preach to others ,as we believe the journey to enlightenment is sacred to each and everyone of us.

We do not judge anyone and all are welcome.

[Pix]

In case it helps clarify, I believe Rainbowmum and Fenris are actually Wiccans as they're the ones who are most likely to quote the Threefold Law.

As this religion (which is only decades old, though it does draw on ancient traditions) draws in many freethinkers it can get very complex, a radical example being that a few Wiccan can actually be Christian at the same time (don't ask me how this works because I don't know) or even atheists (in this case they see God/dess as a metaphor for a mystical reality incomprehensible to humans, but not actually divine and certainly not sentient), though these are definitely the exception to the rule. Virtually all believe in a Lord/God and Lady/Goddess which may be distinct and/or part of a Greater Whole (very similar, though not necessarily identical, to the concept of the yin and yang). Many also choose a patron deity (maybe more than one) to work with as well which is seen as one manifestation possible among many for the God/dess (and it's warned that the attributes may manifest in the Wiccan personally and also one's life which can lead to unexpected consequences).

Gardner originally said gays were cursed by the Goddess (forget which book it was, but keep in mind it was in the 50s and witchcraft had just been legalized and he was having to tread carefully in going public as he was offending enough sensibilities as it was) and a few still retain homophobic beliefs stressing that there's a God and a Goddess and they have a specific role, but this is rare today. Because of the emphasis on experience rather than dogma and attracting freethinkers this belief was challenged and I think rejected for the most part by the 1970s, and today there are even Wiccan trads (or trads inspired by Wicca anyway) that are actually more suited to gays than heteros.

They vary on a lot, too. For example, some see hunting as a spiritual sport and a way to connect with nature and the sacrificing god while others are militant vegans who say the law "harm none" includes animals. Others point out that even in making a garden worms and pests are destroyed as are what grew before and see sacrifice as inherent in life. Some say it's harmful NOT to stand against evil and can thus be inspired to join police and military (or even paramilitary free of government control) forces. Some Dianics (the Dianics I knew pronounced it "Dee-anic" and the goddess "Dee-Anna" while others say it more "Di-Anna" and if you're attuned to those subtle differences you can tell a lot about them by which way they pronounce it) even believe in retaliation spells and cite the harm done when evil men are allowed to roam free to harm again and the tradition of white witches that helped protect villages (and even England in WW2 IIRC) from bandits on both sides of the law.

Oddly they seem to get along much better than many who share the same monotheist religion but of a different denomination though at the same time it's much hard to get Wiccans and kindred spirits to work together effectively (often referred to as "trying to herd cats") as the Christian Right seems able to do with denominations that hold each other in contempt. Of course there are a few who let their egos get in the way and try to impose "the one true way of the Goddess" but for the most part that seems the exception to the rule. I vaguely recall that several Wiccans got together to hammer out the common values shared by them all and though they manage to list a few things (which were pretty vague) they had to give it up as useless...and most don't have a problem with that.

Personally I like that so many Wiccans walk that balance between recognizing the value of the past and tradition while at the same time constantly questioning authority and even their own beliefs as they blaze new trails in thought and spirituality. Whereas many other religions try to stay as strong as the mighty oak, the typical Wiccan (excuse me, I snorted as I typed "typical Wiccan" :tongue: ) believes it's the reed that shifts with the winds (and "change winds") that survive what destroys the unyielding oak.

It's technically called neopaganism ("the new pagans") rather than paganism (but many have dropped the "neo" what with them being hard to herd and all) and isn't what the old paganism was like (there are reconstructionists, however, which can be very interesting, but they're not Wicca, and will often get offended if you confuse them with such even if they're otherwise friendly with Wiccans which they may or may not be). Neopaganism covers more than Wicca so all Wiccans are neopagans but not all neopagans are Wiccans (like all Catholics are Christian, but not all Christians are Catholic). Some reconstructionists see themselves as pagans rather than neopagans (like Wicca), too. Likewise, not all witches are Wiccan (or even neopagan), and not every Wiccan thinks of himself or herself as a witch (though most seem to).

For more (and for those interested to find others in their area):

http://www.witchvox.com/

[fenris]

@ Pix ... no, in my case I´m not a wiccan. Wicca are mostly in a coven, believe in magic and spells, have a chief in their coven ... and so on.

For me it is very important that I´m alone with my religion, I do what I want.... and only my religious thoughts count. I don´t believe in magic ... I see the natural circumstances as valid.

The Threefold law is not really important for me because I have to be peacefully ...
I accept other pagans in their own believings.
It is forbidden to convert people to my religion ... but for me its allowed to teach if someone decided for my religion....

ah... it is very complex

[Zet]

I do not mean to offend anyone and so on, but just due to curiosity, but is Voodoo a kind of Paganism?

[fenris]

I would say voodoo is a own religion.... build up from other religions.

[East]

mile: She can believe in God ....
As pagan you can believe in anything you want.... god, godesses.... Spirits... or like me.. the great goddess, you can go your own way.... and you can use anything from other religions what is important for your own life.
Important is only one thing: "Do what you want but don´t harm anyone... include yourself" Sounds very easy... but ... it is really hard.
You have to live with nature .... not against... that means : no racism, nothing against the free will of someone, no violence
By example : Homosexuality is given by nature..... so you can´t be against it.
Your skin-color is given by nature .... so you can´t be rassistic....
You can believe in god ... but not in christian rules and the christian churches....

Hmmmm...that sounds exactly how I believe myself...maybe I am a Pagan and dont' know it.

One of my friends who is a full time astrologer told me that I have so many planets in Leo which is why I am fiercely independent and hate to define anything because I feel trapped by it. I am not sure if he is actually a good astrologer or a good observer:biggrin:

[Pix]

I do not mean to offend anyone and so on, but just due to curiosity, but is Voodoo a kind of Paganism?

The short & sweet is that it's a mix of African and Native American (especially hoodoo, IIRC) paganism mixed with Catholic Christianity. I'd say that technically it's paganism, but there are a lot of blurry lines in it.

That said, most neopagans and pagan reconstructionists don't consider voodoo and its variants as fellow travelers (though I have a very vague memory of a Brazilian version of voodoo and Wiccans native to that country mixing together...) because, I think, voodoo hasn't been "reborn" as the neopagan and pagan reconstructionists have done because it came about centuries ago as various (and radically different) cultures mixed and has been practiced since then into the modern day.

[TomStatic]

I don't really have any belief yet
but i know there is somthing after death, just don't know if it is going to this higher being or what