We are considering Expatriating

[Buffylo]

Tell that to George Bush. In his 8 years he tanked the economy, started 2 wars and set our nation back decades.

You think the "War on terror" wouldn't have been started with any other president in office? Not to mention, our economy rides bubbles anyway, you can't really blame the President in office while it happens, you have to look at the policies the previous presidents have provided.

[Buffylo]

Tell that to George Bush. In his 8 years he tanked the economy, started 2 wars and set our nation back decades.

and how were we set back "decades"?

[Bowyn Aerrow]

Should you? I don't know.

You and I are both in our 40's and have seen a lot of minor and major changes in the USA over those decades.

From where I sit in central California (Its conservative out there, its only liberal on the coast), things are better.

As a 'kid' in my 20's I recall police allowing crimes to take place, or act like you deserved it when your BF beat the crap out of you. Today a gay man beats up on another and its taken very seriously. Today if a gang of thugs takes a baseball bat to a gay man they face additional charges and penalties (Hate Crime Laws). Back in our 20's the police were as likely to give you a few swift kicks as you laid there while patting the backs of the bashers for doing society a 'favor'.

As kids none of the states accepted or tolerated the idea of domestic partnerships let alone the idea of marriage. Today we have domestic partnerships in a few states, And a few states even allow gays to marry!

Vermont, New Hampshire, Massachusetts, New York, Washington (state and DC), Connecticut and even in the middle of Right-wing America, Iowa.:o

Here in the USA it was George W Bush (The last republican president) who dismantled the last sodomy laws in the USA.

When we were children, homosexuality was considered a mental illness. Yeah sure we may not have witnessed it, but men were being hauled off to the insane asylum and 'treated' for the 'illness' with such wonders of 20th century medicine as electroshock therapy (nothing a few thousand volts applied to the brain can't fix). Go into a psychiatrists office today and demand to be 'cured' f being a homosexual and s/he will work very hard to get you to accept that you are gay and even tell you that its 'normal' to be gay.

No things are not great, Its not like you or I can walk down the street hand in hand with our partners, but we can walk down the street with our partners and even call them 'dear or sweetie' without fear of government reprisal.

This isn't like the Middle East were they arrest you and even kill you (by authority of the government) for being gay. Its not like this is Africa where they are currently turning up the heat and passing new anti-gay laws on a nationwide level.

Here in the states any laws being passed are pretty much opening up new rights for LGBT. Sure the "Traditional Marriage" Defense may have won a few 'anti gay marriage' amendments, but those will be turned down in time and more and more states are just concluding that its far easier to give us what we want.

Blacks didn't win equality by packing it in and moving back to Africa. Women didn't win the vote by running off to Canada. They stood their ground, made a huge fuss and fought tooth and nail.

Recently Don't Ask Don't tell was tossed out. Today most people think that Clinton was a terrible president for having established DADT. A few of us still recall clearly that the polices before DADT were far harder on homosexuals int hat it was criminal to not answer yes when you were asked by the Brass if you were we gay.

DADT was a step in the right direction. In its time it was perhaps a huge step in that the Government made a real stance in a positive direction of acceptance. Yes it was a mere step, Marriage in Iowa is a mere step, Having the AMA view homosexuality is a mere step. Each by themselves appear minor, small, almost a loss instead of a win. Put them all together and we can see that we have walked halfway to the moon in the right direction.

We are getting there. You and I may very well both live to see the day when the Federal Government throws out the DOMA and just recognizes same sex marriage.

We definitely won't see it if all of the LGBT just give up and run away.

[Beaux]

and how were we set back "decades"?

Well, for one, we went from a balanced budget to where we are today- "the edge of a fiscal cliff"

No, I don't think a democratic president would have started a war on terror. Documents that became public last year showed memos between Cheney and Bush acknowledging that they knew that there were no "weapons of mass destruction" to be found but that they continued the charade as an excuse to start the war.

Take a look at the advisors Romney has hired, they are the SAME advisors Bush had during his administration.

So yes, 8 years DOES make a difference. Fiscally we have been set back decades (ie. the same economic woes we lived through at the end of the Regan era), and yesterday the Family Research Councel was proud to announce that they have written the new GOP plank which seeks a constitunal ammendment that would invalidate my marriage and the marriage of every other same sex couple if it were to pass, which it easily could do if we end up with a Repugnican President and Repugnicans holding both houses.

I'm 41 years old and married to a man who's position in the Department of Defense is directly responsible for White House security. I am very aware of the political climate in our country and what it could mean if the GOP wins POTUS.

[Beaux]

@BowenArreow
Have you read the new GOP plank written by the FRC that was released yesterday? If you havnt, I suggest you do so. It is, literally, aimed at undoing all the advances we have made that you mentioned in your post. Specifically, it would allow landlords to deny housing to gays and lesbians, it would invalidate same-sex marriages and domestic partnerships, and over-rule recognition of SSM in the states that currently allow it. Seriously. Read it, it was adopted by the GOP yesterday.
Here, check it out:http://www.edgeboston.com/news/politics/...ion_plank_

[Buffylo]

Should you? I don't know.

You and I are both in our 40's and have seen a lot of minor and major changes in the USA over those decades.

From where I sit in central California (Its conservative out there, its only liberal on the coast), things are better.

As a 'kid' in my 20's I recall police allowing crimes to take place, or act like you deserved it when your BF beat the crap out of you. Today a gay man beats up on another and its taken very seriously. Today if a gang of thugs takes a baseball bat to a gay man they face additional charges and penalties (Hate Crime Laws). Back in our 20's the police were as likely to give you a few swift kicks as you laid there while patting the backs of the bashers for doing society a 'favor'.

As kids none of the states accepted or tolerated the idea of domestic partnerships let alone the idea of marriage. Today we have domestic partnerships in a few states, And a few states even allow gays to marry!

Vermont, New Hampshire, Massachusetts, New York, Washington (state and DC), Connecticut and even in the middle of Right-wing America, Iowa.:o

Here in the USA it was George W Bush (The last republican president) who dismantled the last sodomy laws in the USA.

When we were children, homosexuality was considered a mental illness. Yeah sure we may not have witnessed it, but men were being hauled off to the insane asylum and 'treated' for the 'illness' with such wonders of 20th century medicine as electroshock therapy (nothing a few thousand volts applied to the brain can't fix). Go into a psychiatrists office today and demand to be 'cured' f being a homosexual and s/he will work very hard to get you to accept that you are gay and even tell you that its 'normal' to be gay.

No things are not great, Its not like you or I can walk down the street hand in hand with our partners, but we can walk down the street with our partners and even call them 'dear or sweetie' without fear of government reprisal.

This isn't like the Middle East were they arrest you and even kill you (by authority of the government) for being gay. Its not like this is Africa where they are currently turning up the heat and passing new anti-gay laws on a nationwide level.

Here in the states any laws being passed are pretty much opening up new rights for LGBT. Sure the "Traditional Marriage" Defense may have won a few 'anti gay marriage' amendments, but those will be turned down in time and more and more states are just concluding that its far easier to give us what we want.

Blacks didn't win equality by packing it in and moving back to Africa. Women didn't win the vote by running off to Canada. They stood their ground, made a huge fuss and fought tooth and nail.

Recently Don't Ask Don't tell was tossed out. Today most people think that Clinton was a terrible president for having established DADT. A few of us still recall clearly that the polices before DADT were far harder on homosexuals int hat it was criminal to not answer yes when you were asked by the Brass if you were we gay.

DADT was a step in the right direction. In its time it was perhaps a huge step in that the Government made a real stance in a positive direction of acceptance. Yes it was a mere step, Marriage in Iowa is a mere step, Having the AMA view homosexuality is a mere step. Each by themselves appear minor, small, almost a loss instead of a win. Put them all together and we can see that we have walked halfway to the moon in the right direction.

We are getting there. You and I may very well both live to see the day when the Federal Government throws out the DOMA and just recognizes same sex marriage.

We definitely won't see it if all of the LGBT just give up and run away.

For us (gays) Clinton was probably one of the WORST presidents. Both with DADT (it shouldn't have mattered) and with the DOM act (yup, that was clinton).

[Buffylo]

Well, for one, we went from a balanced budget to where we are today- "the edge of a fiscal cliff"

Well, the democrats haven't stopped pushing us further and further towards that edge either.

No, I don't think a democratic president would have started a war on terror. Documents that became public last year showed memos between Cheney and Bush acknowledging that they knew that there were no "weapons of mass destruction" to be found but that they continued the charade as an excuse to start the war.

I think they would have. Even though they didn't have the intel, I don't doubt they wouldn't have done SOMETHING. although I think the whole "war on terror" is a sham and we shouldn't even be over there, so don't think I'm trying to defend it AT ALL.

Take a look at the advisors Romney has hired, they are the SAME advisors Bush had during his administration.

Not to mention his EXTREMELY homophobic VP....

So yes, 8 years DOES make a difference. Fiscally we have been set back decades (ie. the same economic woes we lived through at the end of the Regan era), and yesterday the Family Research Councel was proud to announce that they have written the new GOP plank which seeks a constitunal ammendment that would invalidate my marriage and the marriage of every other same sex couple if it were to pass, which it easily could do if we end up with a Repugnican President and Repugnicans holding both houses.

I didn't mean it like that. I mean't in the long run it doesn't make a huge difference. No group ever get's everything it wants in 4 years, let alone 8 (they have to earn those next 4). I just don't see those draconian reverse equality laws getting through. Maybe I am in denial. Who knows.

I'm 41 years old and married to a man who's position in the Department of Defense is directly responsible for White House security. I am very aware of the political climate in our country and what it could mean if the GOP wins POTUS.

Really I think we're screwed either way. Just two faces of a bad coin. The politics in this country are very akin to cyanide.

[BigCub]

I would move to Great Britain in a heart beat if I could afford all the costs that associate with moving to another country. I would renounce my American citizenship & birth right in a second, if I had the money to back me up. But since I am dirt poor & can barley afford to pay what bills I do have without the constant collection calls coming in daily, I suppose I am stuck here in the US & will just have to deal with it.

[Beaux]

Really I think we're screwed either way. Just two faces of a bad coin. The politics in this country are very akin to cyanide.[/QUOTE]

When I was in my 20's my views very much mirrored your own, and those views and my feelings of disenfranchisement led me to abstain from being politically active. To day I genuinely regret that I was not more politically outspoken in my youth. To be completely honest, in those days the extent of my political activity consisted of sitting around complaining about both parties with my friends over a water bong and not bothering to vote.
We all have things in our pasts that we regret and (wether it would have made a difference or not), I wish I had voted more.
If there is any one thing I wish I could convey to younger people today here in the US it would be the necessity of voting.
Whoever you feel comes closest to representing your voice, be it dem or rep, VOTE.
I truly believe that in this election more than in any other in my life time, actually getting out there and voting really does matter.

[pellaz]

... Being a gay American is becoming somewhat freighting in the current political climate ...

Americans are driven by fear