Lickings

[princealbertofb]

On the news today in France, a teacher in a junior high school lashed out at an obstreperous 11-year old, apparently, because the youth confonted him and called him an "asshole" in front of the whole class.

Let it be said here and now that NO STAFF of l'Education Nationale (national teaching board) is allowed to hit any of their students or pupils. However this man must have been led up to it, and now he's in jail and waiting for trial. Somewhere it doesn't seem altogether right that a young man's rude behaviour should make you end up in jail... I'm NOT condoning what the adult did, at all. Let's be quite clear about this. But how is a young person to learn the proper way to behave when the limits are never set and rude behaviour is just poorly (inadequately) reprimanded?

What is your experience of getting the odd licking or slap for not behaving well? How did it influence the way you relate to society, the grown ups, or affect you as a grown-up now and the upbringing you may have wanted to instill in your children, if you have any?

[princealbertofb]

The unfortunate part, if we are to believe the radio announcers, is that later that day, the father of the child in full army uniform (he is a gendarme = a sort of police officer equivalent) was waiting for said teacher in the principal's office.... erm..... Did you say "CLUMSY"? The parents filed a complaint, naturally.

I'll tell you more as the inquiry unfolds.

[Enigma]

Good for that teacher. About time someone hit back at a unruly youngster. This is the WHOLE point. There IS no respect either way. From young to old or vice versa. Nor discipline either. A good belt round the lug never did my generation any harm and may even give the schoolkids today a lesson.

You could get caned at school for a minor misdemeanour in the past. It hurt but it was deserved. Respect has to be earned after all. I don't deserve any nor expect any. I have made my pile and feathered my nest WITHOUT any degrees or such.

There is far too much pressure and stress on the young today. No wonder they lack confidence and have shortcomings and turn to drink and drugs. They see their achievments as counting for nothing because my generation hold the whip/ As I say if you don't come up to THEIR mark they will shoot you out. I don't know what the UNI pass mark was in the past nor do I today. But I do know that 85% or more will land a good paying job according to my business friends.

Now DON'T take that as a pitch at YOU. It's not

[princealbertofb]

Good for that teacher. About time someone hit back at a unruly youngster. This is the WHOLE point. There IS no respect either way. From young to old or vice versa. Nor discipline either. A good belt round the lug never did my generation any harm and may even give the schoolkids today a lesson.

I'm not sure what to think of this man's reaction to uncivility. Part of me would like to say "Good for him, because ENOUGH is ENOUGH!", but part of me also shudders at the idea that he could have blotted the youngster out. I'm afraid he may have been at it a little too strong-handedly. His response was out of control. However, the news doesn't mention that the child was badly hurt, so I guess he's alright, just under shock, naughty little imp.

You could get caned at school for a minor misdemeanour in the past. It hurt but it was deserved. Respect has to be earned after all. I don't deserve any nor expect any. I have made my pile and feathered my nest WITHOUT any degrees or such.

No, I don't think we need to bring the CANING back. There must be other ways of treating this, which don't necessarily include physical punishment. But I got my fair share of lugs around the chops too and it didnt make me a bad person either. There is that school of thought that you are likely to reproduce what was done to you in your youth, so how is a person to understand that violence is NOT right when they've been subjected to it, themselves in their youth? Two wrongs don't make a right.

There is far too much pressure and stress on the young today. No wonder they lack confidence and have shortcomings and turn to drink and drugs. They see their achievments as counting for nothing because my generation hold the whip/ As I say if you don't come up to THEIR mark they will shoot you out. I don't know what the UNI pass mark was in the past nor do I today. But I do know that 85% or more will land a good paying job according to my business friends.

Now DON'T take that as a pitch at YOU. It's not

I won't take it personally... Lol... though the job doesn't really pay well, I'll have to admit. I avoid touching my pupils, at all costs. It's a risky business, teaching, these days. But mostly I respect the kids and they respect me back. It's a partnership. When they are rude, they may get detention. It's generally enough to sort the matter.
Let's hope the younger set will pass their exams with flying colours and / or with honours and not under too much stress. The secret is (enough) work, time and effort.

[marshlander]

... You could get caned at school for a minor misdemeanour in the past. It hurt but it was deserved. Respect has to be earned after all ...

I have heard this argument many times, but in my school days mistakes were often made and all that happened was a bad situation was made worse. I don't see how letting someone simmer with the injustice of a wrongful accusation and a beating helps at all. Besides, I can only see that this teaches pupils that when all else fails it's okay to lash out physically; not a tenet to which I subscribe.

I am in total agreement with you that respect has to be earned. I don't believe it comes to anyone by right any more (even if it ever really did in the past). I am not convinced by an argument, though, that suggests it is earned through administering corporal punishment. The best one can hope for in this situation is fear and that does not lead to good places.

Unruly eleven year olds can be a real pain. I've been running composition workshops in two primary schools today and I happen to have encountered a couple (by no means the most difficult kids I've run into, but awkward enough). One's natural instinct is to reach for the tools with which we were treated at school e.g. a good yelling. However, I don't think this is a very dignified course of action and anyway, such behaviour by an adult only serves to set up a model where the pupils are handed control - not really very productive and it sets the scene for future confrontation.

As it turned out I was pleased that the workshop ended with me being able to congratulate most of the kids on progress made during the session and, on a show of hands, an almost unanimous acknowledgement that they had been able to achieve something that they weren't able to do before they came to school this morning. Isn't it healthier to want to come back to a future session?

I know I am in a privileged position. As a self-employed musician I can choose the work I undertake and I don't have to live with the consequences of my decisions in the same way that school teachers do. I've been into hundreds of schools over the years and I am in awe of those teachers who exert control through a quiet and dignified demeanour and a thorough understanding of how to manage pupils' behaviour despite the dreadful and unrelenting pressure to react to provocation through primaeval instinct.

Regards

[marshlander]

Btw, on this topic, anyone see "Waterloo Road" this evening on BBC 1? It'll be interesting to see what happens to a newly qualified teacher who has been falsely accused of physically abusing a pupil.

[ardus]

I have what may be considered an odd take on this but here goes. I think that the teacher was out of line, because nowhere in the job description of a teacher does it allow for a teacher to corporally punish kids. Its not something that one should do without the express consent of the child's parents. That being said, I blame the kids parents because they obviously haven't raised their child to be respectful and to act in a correct way.

I was raised in the old fashioned way, and from about age 8 til about age 12 i got a good lickin from my dad on just about a daily basis. I'm glad that he cared enough about my development to do that because that's how kid's learn. You remember lessons better when they are punctuated with a little pain. Obviously it can be taken too far and should be done with care, but when a caring parent lays a sober hand on their child to discipline them it's usually a good idea. I've personally never in my life met well behaved kids who were not spanked, and that's a big proof for me that it works.