The Bechdel Test

[OrphanPip]

I'm certain that a Midsummer Night's Dream doesn't pass it. Hippolyta and Titania never have a conversation with any of the other female characters. Hermia and Helena only talk to each other about men.

Juliet is the only named female in Romeo and Juliet, her mother is "Capulet's wife."

The Winter's Tale passes it barely since Perdita and Paulina have a brief interchange about Hermione. I can't think of any others that pass off the top of my head.

Edit: Shakespeare's stronger female characters tend to be very commanding and masculine figures that seem to stand alone in the world. I'm thinking of Lady MacBeth, Queen Margeret, Joan la Pucelle, and Paulina. They also tend to be villains (apart from Paulina).

[Pix]

Just because I think they'd be appreciated here:

[Chase]

do they ?
as far as i can remember , the majority of conversation between women in those plays is about men .
i know juliet talks to her nurse about romeo and paris . and to her mother about paris
there might be a bit where the nurse and juliet's mother talk about juliet

but i don't know

Yeah I was just thinking about it. Though some of the other Shakespeare characters like Lady Macbeth, while not being able to talk with other women in the play, was a much more stronger woman than how women were viewed as at the time. Lady Macbeth was such a strong female character many scholars have actually proposed Shakespeare was secretly a woman.

[OrphanPip]

Yeah I was just thinking about it. Though some of the other Shakespeare characters like Lady Macbeth, while not being able to talk with other women in the play, was a much more stronger woman than how women were viewed as at the time. Lady Macbeth was such a strong female character many scholars have actually proposed Shakespeare was secretly a woman.

Lady Macbeth is a strong woman, but she's also kind of evil. Is it a positive representation if strong women eventually go insane because of their ambition?

[HomeagainNYC]

Megumi, there is no doubt that what you posted is just a fleeting glimpse of what has been imbedded in society at large since the dawn of the Homo Sapiens. Women have never be given their due for doing their share and quite often more of the work, though out the centuries, to get us to present day.

Their reward, to be marginalize in the most insidious ways - systematically and constantly. Your post is a clear example of this reality.

The good news - Women are increasingly challenging the status quo and redefining their positions in society, to eradicate this marginalization.

[Chase]

Lady Macbeth is a strong woman, but she's also kind of evil. Is it a positive representation if strong women eventually go insane because of their ambition?

I'm not trying to give the impression of defending Shakespeare's views on women. I was only stating a fact about what some scholars have proposed.

[OrphanPip]

I'm not trying to give the impression of defending Shakespeare's views on women. I was only stating a fact about what some scholars have proposed.

I was just questioning how much Lady Macbeth is really perceived as stronger than women usually would be in the Early Modern period. Firstly, she's based on a historical figure from Holinshed's Chronicles, so her ambitious and strong personality is part of the source material. Secondly, we need to be careful to avoid ascribing our impressions of the character to those of the Early Modern audience, who would have been more likely to see Lady Macbeth as monstrous, sinful, and manly rather than as a "strong woman."

I'd also think it rather weak scholarship to draw those kinds of conclusions simply from a reading of Lady Macbeth as a strong character. Women were unlikely to have the education required to have written the plays, since it was very rare for a woman to have even the basic knowledge of Latin and the Roman classics that Shakespeare had. Only a handful of women from very rich families would have the required education. On top of that they would have to somehow have a connection to the theater, a medium which was off limits to women by law. Not to mention the ample evidence of Shakespeare's authorship from contemporary sources. The entire Shakespeare authorship question is more driven by a market that makes money off of an artificially generated controversy rather than a sober consideration of the evidence.