I have no problem with what uknown21 or Mister Tinkles posted, because they aren't accusing people with different opinions (and who offer REASONS for those differing opinions) of being disgusting, unintelligent people. They're just stating their opinions. Once you've stated your opinion and continue to berate people who disagree with you, while outright refusing to offer the slightest bit of justification for your own opinion, you've completely failed to provide anything constructive to the conversation and end up just looking like kind of an asshole.
As for me, imagining incest with anyone in my family produces a huge ICK factor, but if it's between two consenting adults I don't see a problem - there's the whole genetics issue, but I admit I'm not brushed up on the genetics enough to comment on that. All I'll say is that people who are doing it had better know what the hell they're getting into and take the appropriate precautions.
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unkown21 Wrote:I completely agree with you, different strokes for different folks. But the person who posted this was asking an opinion, i gave mine. And you clearly gave your opinion above. But dont get upset with me an my opinion becaude it doesnt line with yours. Im not trying to sound rude, im just stating that i dont like the idea of incest. Im not saying people shouldnt do what they want, but simply i dont agree with it. And im sorry you dont like flamers and transsexuals but i respect your opinion and am not upset about it. Its good to have conflicting opinions and thoughts, if we all agreed on everything, the world would be too perfect.
Huggs
it's not a matter of agreeing, you have missed the point completely...I couldn't give a rats arse if you agreed with me or don't agree with me.
What I do give a rats arse about is prejudice and bigotry.
No, I don't understand incest, no I don't understand gender identity issues. For myself having a sexual relationship with any member of my family repulses me, dressing in skirts horrifies me <----- that fact does not make incest or trans wrong or give me the right to run around screaming that they are disgusting people and should be jailed/shot or what ever.
If there are 2 consenting adults in a relationship that genuinely love and respect each other NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT to a bigotted opinion at the detriment of a fellow human being. I liken people who express such opions to Hitler, Mousollini, Saddam and any other fundamentalist, because THAT is exactly what it is...FUNDALISM...
I have no doubt cousins, brothers, sisters etc genuinely fall in love with each other, sometime you just cannot help who you fall in love with.
It just horrifies me that if someone came here and wanted advice on a relationship/falling in love with a relative, quite a few of you would attack that person, or rather BULLY that person because of something they may not have control over. You would rather see this person commit suicide because your belief is 'It's disgusting and sick'
THAT TO ME IS THE EPITOME OF IMMORAL.
If you think like that cuddles, then you stand on extremely low moral ground and were only raised correctly if your parents were nazi's or something of the sort.
I am just stunned beyond belief that people still think like this, FFS anyone that live through the 80's and earlier as gay men put up with all your vitriole Cuddles and you are nothing better than a homophobe beating the crap out of a poofter.
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Miles Wrote:I have no problem with what uknown21 or Mister Tinkles posted, because they aren't accusing people with different opinions (and who offer REASONS for those differing opinions) of being disgusting, unintelligent people. Once you've stated your opinion and continue to berate people who disagree with you, while outright refusing to offer the slightest bit of justification for your own opinion, you've completely failed to provide anything constructive to the conversation and end up just looking like kind of an asshole.
Well, from my standpoint, I say it has to do with circumstance.
Most people have the notion of incest as an older adult raping a young child.
But is has to do with more of being related, than with age difference. or rape.
Here's what a dictionary says:
in·cest (nsst)
n.
1. Sexual relations between persons who are so closely related that their marriage is illegal or forbidden by custom.
2. The statutory crime of sexual relations with such a near relative.
Look at the Amish. There are a lot of Amish communities that condone incest. Since they do not let "outsiders" join thier clans, they dont really leave any choice for themselves.
There are a lot of cultures where this type of thing is expected, not shunned.
I may not like it, but thats only because of the people I know in my family.
Well, except for one cousin.....a long time ago....we almost got into it. But we got caught.
Damn he was fine. But I digress.
I dont think I would ever do anything with an immediate family member, IF I were attracted to them, but my cousin....well, thats another story.
On a side note, I think those folks who "throw stones" should take a step back and realize this is what gay people have had to endure...the same kind of "OMG how disgusting and sickening these freaks are".
Just as most homophobic hetero's think all gays do nothing but screw each other and spread diseases....these peeps are thinking along the same lines.
I dont begrudge anyone thier opinion, but you have to remember your past in order to grow into the future.
No, you dont have to like it, but remember most all of us older folks now have had to endure "stone throwing" at one point or another in our lives. And from what I have read recently with some younger peeps on here, its starting up all over again.
Try to be a little more tolerant.......or at least think about it before you point fingers and cry "witch".
After all, I may love hairy men, but someone else will think Im mentally sick for that.
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Okay, this is kind of hypocritical of you. You say
" ***i mean wearing girls clothes is disgusting."
And then you say
" What I do give a rats arse about is prejudice and bigotry."
Like i said, i understand what you are saying dfiant, but dont act so innocent.
And of course i dont want to see anyone commit suicide, so dont put those words in my mouth.
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Cuddles Wrote:How you lot can compare the sick and perverse world of incest with homosexuality is beyond me.
By even discussing it you are reafirming the sterio types about gays being perverts and paedo's.
Dfiant, you are a really twisted person with that logic.
It might have been, or is, different over in Britain than here in the states.
We "lot" can compare the two, because this is what the "normal" people thought being gay was, and some still do think it. That its a perverse disease, where you arent interested in anything but perversion, incest, and rape.
I remember hearing this bullshit on the news and in the papers when I was a teen, when the Stonewall riots were in the news, and gays started emerging from the "darkness".
Its not we who have merged gay and incest, its the brainless morons who live with thier heads up thier asses who have done this.
No one is reaffirming any notion, as these thoughts and feeligs still exist here, with idiots and morons still preaching the same old lies and hatred.
My suggestion and comment was made for the point that people should stop, step back, take a breath, and look at more than one side of something before making a cutting comment.
I understand some people feel strongly on certain things, I do too. But some things, like incest, a lot of us can tie back to things we remember happening to us, to us as a gay community, and to us as human beings just trying to survive in a hatefilled world. Why should I be called a child molester, just because I prefer men? I have no interest in children, much less ever even thinking of molesting one, much less incest of any of my family members. But yet, this is what the hetero's, fag bashers, and religious sects think of gays over here in the states.
Im not religious, but I think the best comment to ever come from any religious book, is....
"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"
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Thank God my whole family is severely unattractive.
This whole incest thing seems like such a bother.
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unkown21 Wrote:Okay, this is kind of hypocritical of you. You say
" ***i mean wearing girls clothes is disgusting."
And then you say
" What I do give a rats arse about is prejudice and bigotry."
Like i said, i understand what you are saying dfiant, but dont act so innocent.
And of course i dont want to see anyone commit suicide, so dont put those words in my mouth.
WOW....nice way to twist what someone says and leave out the important info for your own agenda....did you not notice the '***' at the start of the sentence and then read the bottom of my post which says
Quote:***Just making a point.
Wow, just wow...
whats the next agenda that any another idiot would like to start???
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Morality shouldn't hold the power to dictate what people can or can't do unless it's a matter of someone getting hurt. I was also raised with morals and standards and I was also taught right from wrong. The problem is, there are way too many laws in our society that aren't based around any reason and instead use moral justifications that shouldn't have any power in a rational society. It's alright to pay people and have them have sex in front of the camera for distribution but it's not okay to simply pay them for sex. I talked about that in school once; nobody wanted to illegalize porn but 80% of the class were disgusted by the thought of legalizing prostitution. One year from now when I'm 18 I could join the military and possibly die in some pointless battle but I would not be considered old enough to buy alcohol.
I know how you feel, but from my perspective the morality in most laws has always been messed up...
Damnit, I was going to leave this thread... but the whole "This is what I was taught and I make no attempt to differentiate between my emotions and my sense of reason, random behaviour x is disgustiiiiing" thing keeps pulling me in. God that annoys me. Think for yourself rather than absorbing everything your parents/friends/society told you.
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dfiant Wrote:WOW....nice way to twist what someone says and leave out the important info for your own agenda....did you not notice the '***' at the start of the sentence and then read the bottom of my post which says
Wow, just wow...
whats the next agenda that any another idiot would like to start???
Okay, how the hell am I supposed to know what *** means. I am sorry that what I thought you said was not accurate, and by no means am I trying to twist your words around. When I see what someone writes, i take it at face value. So my apologies for that. I will say that I don't appreciate being called an idiot. That's just childish. Can two people not debate on here without being called names?
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Cuddles, why are you hating everyone that doesn't 100% side with you? If we all had the same beliefs, we'd all be robots and not individuals.
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