Provocative Humour?

[SolemnBoy]

Hello!

I thought it might be fun to make yet another debate thread. This time about something a little milder than usual, namely humour. Most modern stand-up comedians tend to come with really extreme jokes to shock/amuse their audience and when backed up with good writing provocative and politically incorrect humour can actually be hilarious!

Furthermore, I also find that a lot of people get easily offended over jokes. I've never really been one of them since I believe you should be allowed to joke about more or less anything as long as you're not actually spreading hate. A homophobe joking about homosexuals might not be very appropriate, but a gay person (or just non-homophobe in general) should most certainly be allowed to, as long as it's without a genuinely hostile tone!

What do you others think? I myself get infuriated by racism, sexism and homophobia but a well-written joke will make me laugh whether it's about misogyny, antisemitism, the holocaust or whatever.

[dfiant]

Any hostility is unnecessary, even if it is disguised as humour, so hostility is where I draw the line with everything.

Other than that there are no boundaries because the bottom line is if you don't like it you can walk away. The same as TV, if you don't like what's on TV why bother complaining when you can either change channels or turn the TV off and do something else.

I hate censorship as much as I hate whingers complaining and trying to ban something that is harmless and brings others pleasure when the simplest solution is to 'change the channel or walk away.'

[Bowyn Aerrow]

I use humor as a way to deal with emotional crap. Albeit more often than not my humor comes off sounding horrible, it is me trying to keep from screaming or bawling.

A well constructed racist joke can point out social issues, or shame the racists more than the object of the joke. I am not that quick to judge a joke as 'wrong' until I think about it a bit.

Unfortunately for these sorts of jokes there is usually some small grain of truth. A revealing of some aspect of people which frankly scares most who hear it because it reveals more about self than other.

[Pix]

I myself get infuriated by racism, sexism and homophobia but a well-written joke will make me laugh whether it's about misogyny, antisemitism, the holocaust or whatever.

I'm the same way. I used to be a huge fan of South Park, too, and they made fun of everyone so it's not like anyone felt singled out (or shouldn't have).

But I have heard comedy skits that sounded more like bitching sessions with no jokes or anything and that comes off as a cheap, "Let's bash these people and then say it's just a joke, even though there was 1 or 2 jokes in the entire rant max." And sometimes I think it gets too juvenile so that I hold it in more contempt when someone is getting paid to talk like a middle school boy (as much cheap sexual & toilet humor devoid of cleverness as possible in degrading someone), though that's not so much being offended as being contemptuous of it.

Offhand, the only time I can recall being offended (as opposed to exasperated or annoyed) was when it advocated extreme violence to someone. Maybe it's because I've seen dead people, including one guy missing half his head (I was at a distance but what little I saw for a brief moment stuck with me) but when one famous comedian talked about blowing the brains out of Billy Ray Cyrus (and was being very unfunny otherwise as well) I was offended, and then he moved to violent fantasies toward his daughter who was just a child and I couldn't stand it anymore and was disgusted by the people laughing at it. And btw, I'm not a fan of BRC either, back when Achey Brakey Heart played constantly I daydreamed of shooting the radio playing it once, to this day I loathe the song and I'm not a fan. But that still wasn't cool in my book.

I also recall finding it unfunny when a pair joked about having a politician they didn't like either gang raped (against Sarah Palin) or musing on which he should do first, murder or rape Hillary Clinton, and I also recall being very unsympathetic when the one who joked about having Palin raped was ejected from an event run by a women's abuse shelter that she was scheduled to attend and also when the guy who mused on whether to kill or rape Hillary Clinton first got a visit from the Secret Service.

Though just to be clear I'm not saying they should be censored (in most circumstances, that is I wouldn't want such comedy acts done at a school, for example) but at the same time I would hope that it would cost them dearly in fans and/or proceeds when people rejected that. Just because a person has "free speech" doesn't mean that therefore we're obligated to promote them and their message or that they're immune to the SOCIAL consequences.

[Pix]

I thought I'd throw something else in, though it was a politician and not a comedian who offended me. I was still in school when I read of McCain saying, "Why is Chelsea so ugly? Because her father is Janet Reno." I instantly sympathized with Chelsea who was still in school back then and wondered how much that haunted her (as girls can be vicious against each other, especially if they have a reason to be jealous since most of the cruelty is inspired by raging insecurity).

And then when I heard McCain got the nod in 2008 to run for POTUS my first thought was, "Wasn't he the jerk who dissed Chelsea while she was still in school?" It was and that was an automatic black mark against him in my book from the start (it also showed an incredible lack of empathy that was downright mean-spirited in someone who I wouldn't want to be POTUS as a result, evidence of which I looked for at the time and found showing it wasn't just a fluke). That goes to show how much of an impression it left on me, so yeah, I was offended.

However, the main thing that offended me about it was that Chelsea was still in school. Had she been an adult then I'd probably just held him in contempt otherwise and forgotten about it so that I wouldn't have recalled it nearly 10 years later.

ETA: Come to think of it, I prefer politicians leave each other's kids out of their drama as much as possible (I also don't like it when professional comedians go after them), even when there's presumably a valid point to be made over it.

[partisan]

I know an old guy who hates modern comedians, he thinks if a comedian has to swear there no good, and using it as a last resort,
I personally like the more risky, potentially offending joke, it should serve to brake down barriers, and put a lighter touch on subjects we usually speak in somber tones, if we can laugh at it together or at ourselves then its good, though if its not funny, they are using it for shock value alone, or its done with malicious intent then, obviously not

[partisan]

There's a Scottish comedian, called Frankie Boyle who's really big name, in UK, he,s, terribley offensive and, known for it, he used to do comedy panel show "mock the week" with 6 others but always gets, the, biggest laughs, theres really no depth he wont sink to, you find, yourself, bursting, out, laughing, in, spite of yourself - like to add, somethings, i wouldnt, find, funny, like solemn boy mentioned the holocaust, i, fail, to, see anything funny in that because it was just so unspeakably terrible, also, child, murderers, like the infamous moors murderers, ian brady and mrya hindley, i, have, heard, jokes, before, and, while, i, wont, throw, my, arms, up, in, indignation, i, also, wont, see, the, funny, said,

[MisterTinkles]

Comedic Icons who have lasted thier entire lives making people laugh, have endured because they dont need to put people down, make hateful remarks, or use nasty language. Yes, sometimes they do use these types of gimmicks for thier comedy, but they do it to make the joke fit or workable, they dont use them to belittle people.

The greats:

Lucille Ball
Carol Burnett
George Burns
Phyllis Diller
Johnathan Winters
Betty White

These people have lived thier whole lives as comedians and have rarely ever used anything to be constrewed as hateful. In fact, they are greats, because they make people feel GOOD. Not only because of something funny, but because of being human and touching our emotions. A truly great comedian will always us themselves as a template for their comedy. Look at Phylliis Diller and Joan Rivers, they used a lot of their own lives in their comedy, and we love it because we can identify with it.

Comedians who dont have the true gift, use hate, racism, and really bad language to try and be funny. Some of them are, because they know how to work it, but some arent and dont last long....and if they do last, its with a very small fan base. One good example: Andrew Dice Clay-- bad manners, bad language, made very insulting jokes about anybody who wasnt like him, and he even admitted it on the Tonight Show once that it wasnt just comedy to him...he actually hated the people he made fun of. So guess what, his career didnt last long. He made comedy from hate, not from appreciation of the ludicrous things that happen to us in our lives.

Personally, I like a little "dark" humor and if I know they are making fun of a race or group of people without malice, then I think thats funny....because we all do funny stuff. Jeff Dunham can be a little bad at times, but he does it because it fits with what he's doing or saying, he isnt doing it to be mean or hateful....and he is hysterical because of it.

Basically, if a comedian can make fun of themselves, then people will usually accept anything they are "dishing" out, because we know that they are only making fun of the funny things people do and say...they arent bashing anyone, only pointing out the ridiculous and stupid things we humans do and say.


My most favorite comedians:

Gilda Radner
Dean Martin and Jerry Lewis (early age)
Phyllis Diller
Carol Burnett (and friends)
Johnathan Winters
Joan Rivers
Roseanne
Hal Sparks
Judy Tenuda
Margaret Cho
Robin Williams
John Candy
Elvira Mistress of the Dark
Jeff Dunham
Gallagher
Rita Rudner

[jimcrackcorn]

MisterTinkles,,, you left out Red Skelton!!!!!! But that's ok,,,, I forgive you

[partisan]

You left out all the old gentle british comedians,

Tommy cooper
The two ronnies and endless more

Or such shows as only fools and horses, which has so much heart and doesnt need, to be prevocative