What exactly does top & bottom mean?

[Kenny221]

I don't know either...but I think I would be 'bottoming from top' if you know what I mean

[Pix]

I can't put my finger on it yet, but I can feel a notion forming in my mind that it's related to how men think and how women think that define the difference. Women tend to be more consensual (and understand better that one has to give to get) than men (granted, it's complicated) and have physical aspects that make a pure top/bottom sexual choice inconvenient (at least for the top) whereas I think men find it much easier to compartmentalize their life, including sex from other aspects of their life (even emotion) so they're not inclined to see sex as a bonding experience as much as women tend to do, though seeing how many here complain of men who just want sex and also take intimacy seriously that's obviously complicated, too. And speaking in generalities, of course. I don't know, but I can feel my subconscious working on it.

[Undreamt]

The top/bottom issue doesn't really apply to women unless they use toys.

Top being the one that penetrates, bottom being the receiver. That is all that it means.
I would disagree about the consensuality argument or giving and getting, that assumes that there is an ideal role that only one person can have at a time.

Topping and bottoming should not be confused with dominant/submissive, masculine/effeminate, active/passive or physical/emotional.

I would say that being a top or a bottom has the least impact on the way people think.

[Pix]

I would disagree about the consensuality argument or giving and getting, that assumes that there is an ideal role that only one person can have at a time

I meant as in being equal and sharing power, not sure how you're defining it.

ETA: had a bite to eat and I think I know what you mean, that you're saying that men are just as much about "sharing the power" as women. Well I disagree with that, but it's an honest mistake, the differences between male & female are subtle more often than not which gives a false impression that they're about the same. I don't have time to go into it right now but a book that explains this brilliantly is You Just Don't Understand which explores it from childhood development that get men & women thinking differently (while often not realizing just how different because on the surface it seems very similar). It certainly matches my observations.

And just to be clear this sharing between females has a dark side that leads to shunning of those females who don't conform (sometimes to rules that are insane, and btw, was taken from real life with almost no creative license on the rules stated, though I think it was from a middle school rather than a high school), and dehumanization, degradation, and abuse can even follow. As for me the girls decided I was too weird (and I suspect in retrospect that parents encouraged them to reject me) when I was 6 and I was forced to socialize almost exclusively with boys for 4 years (certainly so in my neighborhood) and continued to take part in both Boy & Girl World growing up, where I got to see a lot of differences between them. They both suck, and they both have a lot of unhealthy elements.

I do have to go, maybe I'll expand on it later, especially if it's important to what's occurring to me.

[Sylph]

@ Undreamt :

I think that being a Top or Bottom actually has everything to do with how people think, especially in the gay culture, otherwise we would'nt have these Masc 4 Masc ideals or the stigmatization of effimenancy in gay male culture.

Bottom is seen as another way to describe a woman's role in gay culture, although it shouldn't be and is probably not even appearant to many of us.

To Bottom, you do have to Submit to a degree(such as allowing another person to enter you), it is seen as an Effeminate role/act, It is the more Passive of the two roles essentially and there is more of an Emotional corrolation with bottoming, than with topping, as you are more vulnerable, however most don't see it that way. And the opposite can be said with Topping.

Acient Greeks believed in Pederasty and even then, if you had grown a beard and essentially became a man because of said beard, and you still had sexual relations with another man and bottomed for him, you were considered to then be a woman.

It's this very idea or notion which I think prevails in today's culture, which leads "masculine" men to avoid stereotypes, because of the judgement they would recieve from society, as it would make them feel less of a man and bring drama and stress to their lives, which is not a bad thing(avoiding the drama).

But it's the discrimination against feminine males that I do not agree with, especially from fellow queers. It's like in a lot of interracial pornography between black and white men, the white males almost 80% of the time are the bottoms and this stems from the belief that black men are real men, because they usually are bigger, more intimidating, have bigger penises and are all around "more manly", but this is false.

I mean, although black men typically are structurely more dense then white men (due to a different bone structure), it doesn't mean that this makes them more of a man, that and the fact they do tend to have bigger penises. It just makes them different anatomically.

Same for feminine men. Still men, just alittle different.

@Pixie :

I can agree and disagree and solely for this reason;

Men do tend to get wrapped up in roles, for whatever reason, I can never be sure, and do tend to take sex for what it is and not so much for the spiritual or emotional bonding experience that it is. Perhaps due to a smaller amygdala then females, although, gay men are supposed to have a larger amygdala ratio than straight males and lesbian women have a smaller amygdala ratio then straight females, so I'm not quite sure why that is, but I can see why you would think that.

But then again, I disagree, because there are instances where men do understand the give and take methodology and become even closer because of it, ,like how you say gay women do, such an example is displayed in versatile men and men who have stereotypical "roles" in their relationships and are perfectly happy. Although not quite as prevailant, it still happens .

[Pix]

Although not quite as prevailant, it still happens .

Note that I use words like "tend" and "generally" a lot.

[Wade]

This should clear matters up.

[ardus]

To me this is one of those crazy topics

It is soo much more complicated than sex, but it is most easily communicated in the context of sex.

In the sexual context. Tops and bottoms are easy to define, tops are the ones who pentrate the bottoms.

But in an emotional context things get very sticky.

For the record, I am normally a top.

But I have bottomed, and there are many men, whom I would be happy to bottom for. But there are also many men whom I would only be attracted to as a top.

It's a very complicated issue.
Richard

[sheffield]

I think in many cases top/bottom roles only have effect in sex, and not so much elsewhere in relationship.

Me and my partner are quite equal in our relationship and our masculinity is pretty much at the same level. I'm bottom, sometimes I like to be very submissive in sex and most of the time I value my partner and his needs somewhat higher than my own... not because he wants that, but because I want it and it makes me kinda horny. However, I wouldn't feel comfortable at all if those sex roles would begin to affect our relationship as well, because I only want to be submissive in sex, but definitely not elsewhere in relationship.

[Undreamt]

@ Undreamt :

I think that being a Top or Bottom actually has everything to do with how people think, especially in the gay culture, otherwise we would'nt have these Masc 4 Masc ideals or the stigmatization of effimenancy in gay male culture.

Bottom is seen as another way to describe a woman's role in gay culture, although it shouldn't be and is probably not even appearant to many of us.

To Bottom, you do have to Submit to a degree(such as allowing another person to enter you), it is seen as an Effeminate role/act, It is the more Passive of the two roles essentially and there is more of an Emotional corrolation with bottoming, than with topping, as you are more vulnerable, however most don't see it that way. And the opposite can be said with Topping.

Clearly you have never met a dominant power bottom.

I know a couple of gay guys,
one is camp as a row of tents, talks with a lisp, looks like a model, thin, pretty, not a hair on his body below his neck - he is also a top, he once spent an hour rimming a guy befor penetrating him because it was the bottoms first time and my friend didn't want to hurt him.

the other is built like a house, works as a laborer and has girls hanging off every word he says - he spends his weekends at the local leather bar in a sling getting spit roasted, he also enjoys tying people down and impaling himself on them until they are begging him to stop.

who would you call the 'effeminate one', the more emotional one?