The monogamy minority

[LateBloomer]

Hi KB83, fellow Connecticut gay here! Whereabouts?

I've always had an interest in this subject, but not having been in a situation where I had to decide "do I want to stay monogamous or should we explore an open relationship?", I'm not really sure where I stand, lol. I know gay couples who are open and it seems to work for them. Sometimes I say I'd be cool with a partner who wanted to play around with other guys (safely), but I'm not sure that would actually work in practice (I haven't tested my jealousy restraint). All I know is that when I'm "comfortable" with a guy, I only want to be with him physically. I might fantasize about others, but pursuing and having sex with others probably wouldn't enter my mind.

I think as we see marriage equality evolve and become the status quo, you'll see a greater push for monogamy and closed relationships in the gay community.

I was just having a similar conversation with a gay acquaintance of mine. His point was, if we want to be taken seriously by the straight community as we try to change laws that grant us the same legal rights we need to "clean up" (my words, I'm paraphrasing) our act and stop "fucking around" (again, my words).

I agree...to a point.

I try not to judge certain lifestyles that don't appeal to me (open relationships etc) because I don't want to be judged. And I think certain rights are basic HUMAN RIGHTS and don't need to be sanctioned by the stupid government....

But.
We, as gay men, don't need to relegate our sex lives to adult bookstores, bathhouses and porn theaters any longer. We can have so-called "normal" and BORING sexual lives just like every other straight couple.

[KB83]

I'm really happy to see people taking part in this discussion, thanks everyone for taking the time.

I like the fact that a couple of you spoke about the the whole equal marriage movement that has recently caught on. I agree that on a level for the gay community to be taken more serious we have to clean up our act. The problem is that the image of what a gay male "looks like" to your average middle aged straight person is far from reality. We can blame social media but what are we doing about it?

If I had a dime for how many times I have heard "we are men" and the science behind all of the links provided regarding the need to procreate. Though there might be some level of truth in these studies but what about the various cultures who maintain a monogamous relationship for thousands of years? Then what about cultures that maintain a poly relationship for thousands of years. We can go deep into this element but what about females who sleep around (sometimes even more than us males) ?

I have to question Monogamous- open statement. I have never heard a open relationship as monogamous. In current usage, monogamy often refers to having one sexual partner irrespective of marriage or reproduction. The term is also applied to the social behavior of some animals, referring to the state of having only one mate at any one time. So monogamous open? I always defined a open relationship as committed open and it's in a sense poly? You can argue that it's emotionally monogamous but wouldn't it make more sense to call it emotionally committed and that monogamous shouldn't fit in the equation?
Would love to hear more peoples views on this.

Hi Drew! Nice to see a fellow Connecticut poster here.. I'm in Litchfield county.

I can relate a lot to you Drew , I too found myself questioning my believes in monogamy and even got complex about it being ingrained within us here in western culture but when it comes down to it personally feeling connected to one person goes beyond the responsibility of holding a solid relation but also connecting spiritually and loyalness within a solo person.

Let's keep this discussion flowing!

[NayNay]

I am monogamous when it comes to relationships. I could not deal with having my partner have fun with others and I do not want my partner thinking its ok for me to fool around with others. I want to eventually build a foundation for a solid relationship where two people are loving, willing to sacrifice and make compromise, in order to better the lives of both parties involved in a relationship. For me, if I wanted to have an open relationship, I would not be considering it a relationship at all.

I do not judge others who have open relationships, I just know that I cannot get involved with someone who likes having open relationships. It is not my cup of tea.

[Pix]

When I think of "monogamy" I think of a concept and ideal (though it may simply be conformed to as "that's how it's done" without giving it any thought), and as that's what most people are after (at least from their partners) then the vast majority are monogamous regardless of sexual orientation.

However, cheating is also very common (and not just for men, though I believe men aren't anywhere as discouraged from doing so as women), and then there are the "players" (but typically at least imply they're monogamous) which is common for men of any sexual orientation until they've sowed their wild oats (and as many gays had to hide, suppress, and/or wrestle with themselves as teens it's not surprising they make up for lost time in their 20s). But unless they're open about it then I still see them as monogamous (and they typically want their partners to be monogamous to them, may even become violently furious if their partner plays around the same way), which is why they're called "cheaters," not because they're with more than one person, but because they broke the rules of monogamy which they at least implied they were playing by (of course one can easily cheat in a polyamorous affair as well by violating the agreed upon rules of the relationship).

[MisterTinkles]

From what I have seen in "gay culture" from the US states Ive been in and lived in, young guys are bombarded with all the brainwashing shit that has been going on since I dont know when.

For some reason, all the "gay" stuff young people seem to find all revolve around "sex, sex, sex".
NOTHING about love, friendship, relationships, or commitment...only SEX.
THIS is why most all young LGBT people are SO freeking screwed up in the head! This is why they have such a hard time distinguishing between friendship, love, and being used for sex. This is why there is no help out there....because for some assbackwards reasons, nobody wants to tell the young people what it is they NEED to hear, only the BS and lies that have been fucking us all up for years.

And its not stopping either. Nobody is doing anything to correct this, nobody is doing anything to educate young LGBT people to the fact that the BS they hear is just that...BS!!

And most of us learn too late in life what it is to be monogamous, and to have a monogamous friendship or relationship of any kind.

Its like putting a teen in the drivers seat of an airplane and telling him to fly the plane, with little instruction. They might get it up in the air, but then they run into all sorts of problems...and end up crashing. Bad analogy, but thats all I could come up with right now.

Yes, some LGBT people are more wise to the BS when they are younger and figure out for themselves what its all about. While the rest get eternally confused and bewildered because what they feel doesnt coincide with anything they hear or read in the gay community.

Its fine to be monogamous. No, not everybody is interested in it, but it has so many advantages.
They dont hear this. Nobody teaches this. Nobody explains this. They are just constantly bombarded with SEX, SEX, SEX.

Yes, monogamy is in the minority in gay culture.
Is it on the rise? I dont think so. Ive seen a lot of stories in the past few weeks in the online news where all these gay couples who fought to get legally married, did so...and now are divorced. Go figure.

Monogamy is an act of will and perseverance. Most people just dont understand this.

I do think monogamy is more "acceptable" to the older generation, simply for the fact that they ARE getting older. Nobody wants to grow old alone, much less not have anyone around to help them out when they cant do for themselves.

If ALL kids were taught about monogamy, what it is exactly, what benefits it has, and why some people want it....I think there would not be as many problems with those questioning their sexuality, preferences, or being eternally alone because they do not want "sex, sex, sex"...they want human companionship on a daily basis with someone they can trust.

Thats my "two cents".

[KB83]

For some reason, all the "gay" stuff young people seem to find all revolve around "sex, sex, sex".
NOTHING about love, friendship, relationships, or commitment...only SEX.
THIS is why most all young LGBT people are SO freeking screwed up in the head! This is why they have such a hard time distinguishing between friendship, love, and being used for sex. This is why there is no help out there....because for some assbackwards reasons, nobody wants to tell the young people what it is they NEED to hear, only the BS and lies that have been fucking us all up for years.

I can't agree more.. This is kind of the whole backing to my initial post. What are we doing as people who have learned the responsibility of maintaining a healthy relationship (no matter the type) .

Who is behind these gay apps anyways? Is it really someone in the gay community? I have to question!

Your whole post is kinda the idea of my initial reasoning for writing.. Who is standing up to show the youth of today that being gay is more than sexual preference ?

Is it enough speaking about this on a forum?

At first I was really unsure if I should start this topic but I am glad that I did

[Undreamt]

Another thing worth considering is the environment that this is occurring, different cultures, different cities will have more or less of something depending on what society wants, what they are allowed to have and what is prohibited.
The more restrictive something is, the more minorities go in the opposite direction.

I thought I would mention this because it does influence my perspective. I live in Melbourne, Australia and these days people are very accepting, yet I see alot of things that are the opposite of some of the perspective I have read on here.

The last midsumma gay carnival was geared towards couples, there was a dog show, there were more political tents than kinky outlets, the most exotic underware on sale were coloured y-fronts.
Alot of my gay friends have been in relationships for longer than my straight friends.
I have heard many people complaining that people are too forward on the phone app's, one of my work mates seriously thought that the purpose of the apps were nothing more than to find a date.

I have been surprised to find myself on the other side of the debate these days, I used to be very vanilla and naive, but I realise that there is more to it than just duty under the bedsheets with your significant other.
Sex can have a whole lot of meanings and can change depending on the person, the time and the perspective.
Sexuality is fluid.

I'm more than happy to answer any questions you might have if you want more details or what changed my mind.
I don't want to be too explicit in topic because this place tends to be on the "family-friendly" side of things but i'm happy to talk in private message.

[BobInTampa]

Some great posts and great points in this thread! I'd like to add my 2-cents into the discussion!

First, i'd like to address the points raised about the impact of gay marriage on promiscuity in the gay community. Ok, first off, the ONLY reason that gay men have that reputation is that gay men have ALWAYS been comfortable being open about their sexual needs, desires and activity. Where, with heterosexuals, sexual needs, desires and activities are talked about behind closed doors and whispered (if ever talked about).

Gay's embraced their sexuality - openly! That was, and is, part of who we are as a community. We openly challenged the "socio-sexual norms" - and any time you do that you really piss off (and scare the crap out of) those who belive in "traditional family values."

All that said, before you ignore my last point and want to use bookstores, theaters and bathhouses as examples of why "monogamy" is a challenge for gay folks - i challenge you to google the words SWING CLUB and then enter your state. You'll see as of 2012, there were more "str8" swing clubs than there were gay bath houses! And, despite the sterotype of the "typical" adult bookstore/theater patron, according to industry reports - the orientation of patrons is almost equal 3rds - gay, bi and str8. ALso, according to a recent "lifestyle" survey, 25% of all married couples engage in some sort of "swinging." Consider the percentage of gays to str8's and the reality is that more str8 couples are in open relatioships than gay couples! And finally, the survival rate of 1st marriages in the US is still only 51% after 5 years, and the #1 reason for divorce in those marriages was INFIDELITY! So, let's let the facts speak for themselves - monogamy is an AGREEMENT - not a lifestyle! That agreement sometimes lasts a lifetime, but more often than not, is subject to discussion and/or revision over time!

Before i discuss monogamy and the gay community, let me address the importance of having an OPEN and HONEST conversation about the issues of sex, desires, fantasies, and how that ties into monogamy.

I can't tell you HOW many stories i've read on sites like this - and dozens of others - where 1/2 of a couple "thought" they were in a monogamous LTR - only to find out their partner had cheated on them! Now, i always get bashed when i bring this up, but every time i talk to a person about the "cheating" i ask the couple (usually separately), if they had an OPEN and HONEST discussion about sex and being monogamous BEFORE they got married (or moved in together). It won't surprise you but the one who was "cheated on" always - ALWAYS answers the question YES! and the one who did the cheating says, ALWAYS answers, "NO."

As the discussion (sometimes argument) continues, i will press the issue. And virtually in each case, they both agree that the REALITY was that the "discussion" was more of a perception and "assumption." You know that line, "Well, when i said i only wanted to be with you, i assumed you knew that meant we'd only have sex with each other!"

Well my friends, that is NOT an open and honest conversation about sex and monogamy! So many couples just gloss over those topics out of fear of breaking up or being thought of as a "whore" for having sexual needs and desires outside a primary relationship.

But, at the end of the day, isn't it better to have that discussion upfront and be open and honest about your feelings (and your partner's needs and feelings) then to find out years later that the relationship will die due to cheating?

My partner and i HAD been monogamous for the first 3 years of our LTR. We had a long, open and honest discussion about sex, fantasies, needs, desires and also talked about our past LTRs and how and why they failed. After that we decided that it was critical that for at least the first 3 years of our LTR we should be monogamous - and we were. During that time, we focused 100% on each other. Learning, listening and growing together - without outside influence or temptation. ONLY after that period did we re-visit the issue of monogamy in our LTR and we both agreeded that it would be "fun" and "healthy" to engage in some sexual escapades with another person of our mutual choosing. We've since had a couple 3 ways and had a great time! We're still friends iwth the guys we played with - and that was crticial to us - we didn't want a casual "trick" - we wanted it to be someone we'd come to know and trust.

Is our LTR now considered "open." I guess you could say the answer is yes, because we both consented to the 3some - but we also promised that such events would only happen when we both wanted it and we would NEVER meet anyone alone for any type of sex.

I think, as I close, that i really want to circle back to the issue of COMMUNICATION! If you can't be open and honest with your partner about your sexual needs, desires and fantasies - from day 1 and every day after you're togehter - i promise you there will be an issue somewhere down the road.

My partner and i talk about sex almost every week. Not about having a 3 way, but just about sex in general. From watching porn and talking about the scene, to watching TV shows and discussing a situation on an episode about sex - it's as common a topic as bills, work and what we're doing for vacation this year!

If you think talking about sex is "taboo" or it makes you uncomfortable - get over it if you EVER want to have a happy and sexually healthy and active relationship!

Finally, just know that the status of an LTR is, and always will be, a fluid one! No couple EVER will say that they have more sex 10 years after they got married than the first year of their marriage. EVERYTHING CHANGES! If you can't talk about that - you're setting yourself up for failure! DOn't fear it. Embrace it.

Be open when you communicate with your partner. Talk about sex! Don't whisper about it. Don't shut off the topic!

COMMUNICATE!

[imitxu]

Living in the US for 10 years, I can't deny what you say is somewhat true. However, I'm raised in a culture where monogamy is sacred. It's not a choice, and it is something people in my culture are obligated to do. That doesn't mean there are not cheating spouses.

I'm not a traditional Vietnamese, yet I'm not totally Americanized either. To me, relationship is sacred, and monogamy is the way. I have always felt like this since I grew up.

Most Vietnamese people I know of are laid back people. They prefer to settle down early, go to work on time, and come home to their loved ones. Their sex lives are simple, too. Communication about sex is unnecessary because they are not interested in wild sex, porn, or strange fantasies. Gay or straight, they are almost the same. I am not exceptional, either.

However, I only speak from what I see in Vietnamese people who grew up in Vietnam. I don't know about American born Vietnamese people. Perhaps they think differently.

So I think it depends on the person and the culture where he/she grew up.

[VileKyle]

I don't know about American born Vietnamese people. Perhaps they think differently.

Haha. I have an American-born Vietnamese friend. The culture didn't transfer over that well with him, as he's far from the "laid-back settle down" type of guy. His relationships are all over the place. Maybe you could teach him a thing or two.