Androgyny <3

[MisterTinkles]

From where I grew up and in the gay areas I have hung out in, Androgyny is a person of which you cannot tell whether it is a male or a female.

Ive had this problem numerous times working in retail. A customer comes in, dressed nicely, but in colors and style that are "non gender specific". I was always at a loss for polite conversation with them, because I didnt know whether to say "Yes Ma'am", or "Yes Sir".

I finally figured out how to deal with that situation, so it never bothered me again.....unless its someone looking for a gender specific item, and I dont know if they want it for themselves or for someone else.
I made that mistake once....someone came into my department looking for skirts, so I took them over to where the skirts were, and they asked where a specific style was, and then I asked their size.
The HE said it wasnt for him, it was for his girlfriend. I could have melted I was so embarrassed. I hate making faux pas like that.

But you know what? Androgynous people know they look like that, so they arent offended. Some even laugh at it.

When I think about it, I wonder that it might be fun being like that....messing with peoples minds and such!! LOL

[Sylph]

You posted a picture on I think Stud of the Day of a guy with facial hair with a "female" hairdo, and effeminate clothing. I was perturbed by that image, something in my gut, my animal hind brain revolted against it. A rather intriguing sensation for me since I typically don't revolt against anything.

I think that there is specific expectations of gender which we as animals expect. I have no problem with shaved faces of pretty guys in a dress or whatever. I have no problem with a guy in a beard throwing on a dress for laughs. But somehow gender neutral became gender confusing when the guy had a clearly masculine feature (facial hair) mixed with clearly effeminate features/dress/hairdo/whatever.

I find that a lot of the androgyny images posted are thus far guys who look womanly, not true 'gender neutral' but with a strong leaning toward the effeminate. There is no ambiguity, no 'well I don't know which gender they are' most look a lot like women. Thus are readily classified 'Female' in my brain.

Its not like we are looking at Saturday Night Live's Pat:



Which is perhaps a bit more realistic of the expectations of 'gender neutral'.

The image you posted at the top of this thread is that of a woman (in my eye). Like it or not this is what I expect a woman to look like... Is this true androgyny? Or is this a guy who is readily fitting in the role of cross dresser/transgender?

There is no real ambiguity with that 'guy/woman' in that image. He looks like a she.

I'm perfectly OK with 'Her'. 'She' is neatly defined as 'Her' in my mind and I can sally forth in my own little world knowing everything is right and proper. The other guy, the one with a beard - I am confused, I'm a bit 'upset', my little world is suddenly not so right and proper...

Now is my view that that is a woman based on instinctual clues and expectations that my DNA carries with it in the never-ending quest to find a mate to have offspring? Or is it a programmed response of 47 years of being told 'These are the things we expect from women, long hair, make-up, soft features.... etc....'?

There is the rub. Where does real gender differences end and genderfication (a state of applying unrealistic goals/expectations on a person due to what does or does not dangle between the legs) begin?

This slight revulsion I had was a unique experience for me. I now have what I think is a sudden insight as to why people revolt at the notion of LGBT people in general. Perhaps they too have that animal side of their brain reacting to us but on a more stronger level?



Old time carnivals would have the Bearded Woman, who was considered a 'freak' and people would pay to be chilled/terrified/revolted to see the Bearded Woman, a known 'freak of nature'. Right along side the 'wolf boy' and Siamese Twins.... What defines 'freak' in the minds of human, and what does 'freak' do to the animal side of the brain?

Do androgynous people bring that 'freak of nature' revulsion out of typical humans?

As usual BA, your brain turns me on .

Now, as for the pic in question;


This can be called "Androgynous Fashion" and even Boyish Beauty, because while being pretty, you can clearly tell he is a man. A very pretty man, but still visually a man.

Whereas with Androgyny, it's not so heavily based on Ambiguity, as it is what it means literally. Man and Woman or Masculine and Feminine.

True such persons as Andrej Pejic truely gender bend, as he induces the most curiosity out of people and is very easily percieved as a woman, there's that little "tickle" that lets you know all is not as it seems, hence the whole Ambiguousness.

This is why people often confuse Transexualism and Cross-Dressing with Androgyny, because they are related, but not the same.

Like Transgender people, Androgynous people (both physically and mentally) tend to want to look like how they feel or think they should look and because Androgynous men carry female traits and qualities, as well with similar mental qualities often tend to match their appearance with Make up and the like.

However, they are also still Male, so will never truely give Real Woman Realness.

It makes no difference really. Androgynes like Pat, while being ambiguous, still are a specific gender(unless Hermaphroditic as well) and so will always induce a sense of "hmmmm....", but can easily as Daddy and Nicky talked about, be Agender, which falls in the realm of Androgyny, but isn't really what it is.

I think it's a beautiful thing. It shows our diversity as people and is a freedom from the "code" or blueprint we recieve at birth. Like you mentioned.

I get it confuses and weirds people out, but really it's no different from being black, white, russian or Ugandan. It's who you are, not what solely defines you

[Sylph]

From where I grew up and in the gay areas I have hung out in, Androgyny is a person of which you cannot tell whether it is a male or a female.

Ive had this problem numerous times working in retail. A customer comes in, dressed nicely, but in colors and style that are "non gender specific". I was always at a loss for polite conversation with them, because I didnt know whether to say "Yes Ma'am", or "Yes Sir".

I finally figured out how to deal with that situation, so it never bothered me again.....unless its someone looking for a gender specific item, and I dont know if they want it for themselves or for someone else.
I made that mistake once....someone came into my department looking for skirts, so I took them over to where the skirts were, and they asked where a specific style was, and then I asked their size.
The HE said it wasnt for him, it was for his girlfriend. I could have melted I was so embarrassed. I hate making faux pas like that.

But you know what? Androgynous people know they look like that, so they arent offended. Some even laugh at it.

When I think about it, I wonder that it might be fun being like that....messing with peoples minds and such!! LOL

Hunni, just say "oh you look very nice. Here's a fab outfit, do you like it?" and there you go. No need to say sir or ma'am, and only inquire whether they like what you are showing them, no need to guess lol. They'll let you know hunni <3

Also, it is fun to walk into a bathroom looking like a (feminine boy) and coming out looking like a lady. Peepz be like...???

I know a girl all through highschool, who for the life of every bloody person, including myself, couldn't fathom whether she was a boy or not. I mean, I can confuse some people and pass for a girl, but damn! She even had a walk that made you unsure lol.

My walk has been compared to "preppy" or "modelesque/catwalk-ish", so works well to confuse peeps . And that's my natural walk. I can walk "boyish" if I try.

This is just me naturally... However, I do not wear make up like most Androgynous Men tend to, although I'm sure If I did, I'd make an awesome gurl lol



Alittle trim of the eyebrows and some make-up and I'd be good to go lol. However, you can clearly see my masculine traits as well. Even with my Feminine ones so evident, so without prolonged observation, I could easily be believed or mistaken to be a girl.

[Sylph]

You know it :tongue:

To clarify, it's not cross dressing that does it for me (though I won't ever stand in someone's way of doing so). For some reason, I just can't resist someone who was born naturally androgynous (that word is terribly hard to spell). As someone who is attracted to both genders, what's better than getting both in one package? What I'm trying to say is that while I may not be as awesomely androgynous as you, I do appreciate your presence in the world. And damn, you made me blush!

Well, it's more or less matching the "feeling" that you like, not so much cross dressing per se. I dress as a boy most days, but some days I want to glam it up a bit. However, I do not wear heels or dresses, just feminine clothing.

Aww HD Kyle, you can't resist me hunni? You're not the first... Lol

That's interesting. It would seem Bisexuals would find Androgyny attractive, as it does encompass both Masculine and Feminine qualities and traits...Whereas a lot of gay men only want "Men" which somehow excludes Feminine or Androgynous Men and Women are funnily the same way.

Amazing how Similar these Butch Queens are to Women, despite their inhibitions towards Feminine males.

Aww. I'm not ~that~ physically Androgynous, but it's nice to hear appreciation <3

And hunni, if I weren't married to the Divine Tree, I could make you do more than blush lol. Just kidding...I'm not married :p

[naitsirc]

Society has conditioned us to view clothing as either being acceptable for either male or female. Many women can wear traditionally male clothing with little criticism. It is frowned upon when a man does it. Gender assigned clothing is another barrier that needs to be broken as it has no impact on anyone as to what you wear. The fact that men can wear kilts but not dresses does not make sense. Maybe we should all just wear Mao suits or unitards (skin clinging tight body hugging revealing unitards).
I think the problem is that many people still assign roles to specific genders and seeing a person who is gender ambiguous places them outside of their comfort zones. As more women enter the male workplace and take traditionally male occupations they still have to dress differently (eg police, army uniforms catered to different sexes). Seeing a man in a dress is disconcerting as we are not used to it, but then I find women dressed in a burka with just the eyes visible disconcerting as you can't see any facial expressions. Ultimately it comes down to freedom of expression and dress how you want to, you should not be judged according to your dress just as you should not be judged whether you are male, female, etc.

[Wiggedjay]

Pellaz thank you for your post with the pics, in a strange way I found them faintly disturbing. Androgyny is not a subject I have considered very much so not sure I can add much to this discussion. When I looked up the dictionary definition I see that one definition is being neither distinguishably masculine nor feminine, as in dress, appearance, or behavior. So is this just contained to the external perception that others have off you or is it possible to internalize androgyny in that you feel neither male or female. For example in some cultures such as Thailand and India there is the concept of the third sex where those who identify with being a member of that group as neither male or female they do not intend to transition to being women but identify as masculine and feminine. For me gender identities are quite fluid where the physical form is more fixed i.e it is difficult to look androgynous if you have a broad back that tapers to a thin waist, nice small tight bottom and with muscular arms, oops I digress, but I think that you may understand what I mean. So while I feel neither male or female in a traditional gender stereotypical way does that make me androgynous in my mind. For example I have a very logical mind that is always seeking the logical explanation for things some would say masculine traits, however I rate highly in empathy tests which is general regarded as a female characteristic. I love show biz gossip and fashion, doing my nails going on spa pampering days. My boyfriend calls it satisfying my feminine side. Which is interesting as we both enjoy long debates about technology, world politics, cricket etc. He knows when I need to do more feminine things he gives me my space to enjoy. So I don't know that a label is important unless you want one or to belong to a tribe at the end of the day it is about finding what works for you and being happy.

[MisterTinkles]

Hunni, just say "oh you look very nice. Here's a fab outfit, do you like it?" and there you go. No need to say sir or ma'am, and only inquire whether they like what you are showing them, no need to guess lol. They'll let you know hunni <3

Also, it is fun to walk into a bathroom looking like a (feminine boy) and coming out looking like a lady. Peepz be like...???

I know a girl all through highschool, who for the life of every bloody person, including myself, couldn't fathom whether she was a boy or not. I mean, I can confuse some people and pass for a girl, but damn! She even had a walk that made you unsure lol.

My walk has been compared to "preppy" or "modelesque/catwalk-ish", so works well to confuse peeps . And that's my natural walk. I can walk "boyish" if I try.

This is just me naturally... However, I do not wear make up like most Androgynous Men tend to, although I'm sure If I did, I'd make an awesome gurl lol



Alittle trim of the eyebrows and some make-up and I'd be good to go lol. However, you can clearly see my masculine traits as well. Even with my Feminine ones so evident, so without prolonged observation, I could easily be believed or mistaken to be a girl.

Hmmmm........that bed isnt very Queen like........


Im just sayin......

[Bowyn Aerrow]

Oh my.... IDK I wouldn't mind waking up to that sight every morning.

No this not me after your kindle...

[Sylph]

Oh my.... IDK I wouldn't mind waking up to that sight every morning.

No this not me after your kindle...

Tehe! You naughty elf! Lol I hope you don't mind dreadlocks slapping you in the face too, cause I sleep rough! Evident from my messy bed...as Tinkies has so...eloquently...pointed out lol.

And yes it is! You know you want it BA...the Kindle too

@Tinkles;

Bitch! Lol. I keep everything but my bed and couch tidy...I am a boy after all. Despite how I look sometimes

[Bowyn Aerrow]

Slapped in the face - Oooooo I like it rough.....