I know I messed up, need advice anyway

[Lordswitch]

Hello,
I'm at my wits end and thought that sharing my experience here would be beneficial. Please don't rip into me for this, as I am very fragile at the moment.

I met my boyfriend 8 years ago at Uni inn the UK. We hit it off immediately. I knew from day one that he was hiv+, whereas I was not. We dated intensively and after our BA I moved countries back home for the summer (scandinavia). We stayed in touch, visited and decided to return to Uni and do an MA each. We moved in together. In the first few weeks of us living together we hadn't put down any proper rules. (We met on an online cruising site originally). I ended up emailing a guy. It was just to get a rise out of it. My bf found out (friend of a friend) and was almost going to kick me out. We dealt with it. Agreed to rules. A few days later I was on his laptop doing some work and had to find a file. Did a search and ended up with finding out he had been calling ppl on his phone, webcaming and arranging meetups. I confronted him when he came home. We agreed, as guys in their early 20s do to let it pass, it was online, its like porn, we wont do it again.

Our MA year was amazing we grew to love one another, no jelaousy nothing. After we graduated he got a job in my country and we both moved there. Had to live with my parents for 6 months whilst looking for our own flat. We lived there for about a year me doing small jobs waiting to start my PhD, him starting a real career. Then, he applied for a job in Amsterdam and got it. We both visited and liked it well enough. He moved in advance end of august to set things up and I was meant to come asap. We met for a xmas (of course visited before) celebrated it at his house. His relationship with his mother was shaky at best and he ended up very depressed during out stay there. They ended up arguing and we were kicked out on New Years eve. he decided then to never have anything to do with her again. We travelled to Amsterdam together and started out life. I did my PhD part-time for 2 years and he worked. We settled into a very happy life. Not as active as we used to be but it was still happy. At this stage he had been on the HIV medication for 2 years and our sex life ground to a halt. He barely wanted to kiss me, cuddling and stuff was allright, but no sex. He refused to talk about it no matter how I tried. I love(d) him so I thought, fine, this is normal anyway. I always have my right hand.

We had been together 4.5 years when I had to quit my job and move the PhD from Part-time to full time. This also meant I had to move back to College, in the UK. We knew this in advance and had planned for it. I wasn't there for more than 1.5 months when he visited and the next day dumped me. Shitty reasons that we need to move on, he thinks the spark is gone etc. We talked through it. Seemed he was trying to preemptively dump me. Insecure etc. We sorted it the same night and got together. Both happy. He told me that if he isn't enough for me I should go and find sex elsewhere he doesn't mind as he is worried of giving me hiv and is almost asexual. I didn't want to.

When I next visited home, there was a condom packet under the bed. I felt shit all day, thinking that he had been finding sex elsewhere and thats why he told me to do so. I confronted him but he denied it. Said it must have been the old tenants that fell out from between the bed and mattrass (we rent a furnished home). Then he went off on one that I need to be less jealous etc. I asked myself if I could still love him if he cheated. I decided that for me its ok so I simply repressed it. That summer our holiday was Thailand. He went 10 days in advance with work and stayed in a 5 star Hotel (one of the big name ones). When I arrived I was missing him, we were passionate and I pulled his underwear down and find crabs. He hadn't even noticed. We shave him, but he panics and starts to look for a pharmacy so we can get some anti crab shampoo , I say, "Look its ok if you did but tell me if you had sex because if not then its doubtful these are lice. He said of course not, must have been the hotel, the sheets or when he had his undies washed.

Thailand trip is amazing, we go to Paris and its amazing. Summer spent together is nice. though when I leave to visit my folks when I come back I find a whole package of condoms and a lot of them are used. I'm thinking: these aren't used by us...
Go back for my last year of Uni. Am very active visit often and am in love and love him.

Then last May, he visits for his birthday, is meant to be busy with a MC licence. I keep myself busy thinking he'll spend time with me after he is done with it. he drops out of it, tells me he wants to leave. I'm hoping we get a few days at least. Whilst I boil my cup of tea he has rebooked his flight and when I walk into the room he is frantically packing. His flight was in 2 hours.

After he leaves I feel shit. I have done a lot of choices based around "us". I take a long hard look at us. together 6.5 years. 3.5 roughly completely sexless. With me wanking him off once every couple of months. He was tired and depressed due to his work as well. Whereas there I was spending tonnes of time with my bets friend and friends at uni. I kinda realised that me and my best friend and me and my BF had the same relationship. Kinda.
My BF and me had stopped doing fun stuff (not because i didnt want to but because he was working insane hours and was down) he also was and is extremely introvert, is happy with work collegues and me. Doesn't have many friends except old friends from school he sometimes chats with. (and a guy that I knew they both fancied eachother ages ago)

I was lost, and suddenly didn't know what I wanted with life, at all. Then, last week of term I made my misstake. A guy I knew hit on me and we ended up in bed. For a week.

I kinda fell for the guy a bit, but still love(d) my bf. me and this guy decided to stay fuck buddies. I moved back home with my BF. And I was weighing my possibilities. I wanted to see if we were damaged beyond repair. It was slowly getting better. I had been given licence to have sex elsewhere so I ended up meeting this other guy a few times last autumn, met him last around December.
However I had discussed my situation with some of my friends and this guy and me were in touch. there was some emotion during autumn, but after autumn it was just chatting as friends with occassional sextalk added to it. At first he wanted me and I didn't wanna leave my BF. Then he realised he wanted to spread his wings anyway and as I got to know him I realised that my BF was the one for me. I guess I just compartmentalised the sex to my sexbuddy and the rest to my bf.

Several times this year me and my sexbuddy have talked about meeting up.But I always cancelled. He was not in love with me, I had fallen out of love for him. Things were looking up for me and my BF.

Then 3 weeks ago, someone tipped off my bf. He asked me, I said the guy was just sex. and me and my bf love eachother so we stayed together. 3 hours later he woke me up. Apparently he had hacked my skype and read chatlogs. He kicked me out from out apartment, with the reason that since atm he is paying rent and I am not its his. I had to move to a friends spare room. Me and my X were basically married. Joint money, helped eachother etc. Now, I am jobless, just finishing my thesis. I am homeless. He broke up with me because he says he thinks I was just with him for money since last autumn. he is hurt of course. I want to fight for us but he just has anger and hurt. Doesn't even want to see me. I can have my stuff in our home since I can't bring things here.

My friends say I should move on. I just hate myself for ruining something. I have had it pointed out that there are issues at stake here such as I am human, people make misstakes etc.
I have enough self loathing as it is. Please don't turn this into a "your cheating ass deserves it thread". I just don't know what to do. We managed to have a civil convo on the phone one week ago. Where he was genuine. Told him I am sorry that I love him. yesterday was the pickup day for some more of my stuff. It was hell. We ended up having an argument. I pushed him verbally to hit me. he did. he tried to kick me out refused to go until he heard me out. It was a argument version of what we had already discussed texting. He had read ALL my skype logs he felt shit. he doesn't think he is the right for me that we have no future. he still loves me but "every fiber of his body" tells him to not give this time and then start as friends and see. he wants to move on and find someone better because he thinks he can.

I confronted him again re the condoms and the lice. The condoms he claimed as due to him doing posh wanks and the lice he has no explanation for.

We left on civil terms. We both love eachother but deal with it differently. I want to fix it he wants to cut clear and excise me from his life.

I am at the stage where I accept him dumping me. I know I did wrong and it will haunt me forever. I don't want him out of my life. He has been my best friend, my first family, my love and partner. Now its all gone. Do I leave it, see if its meant to be then he'll come around to at least talk to me in a few months or something? Do I wait and postpone the inevitable?

I don't have gay friends who can give proper advice (only other 2 couples we know are poly or have only ever had short relationships).

Please help, and thank you for reading this.

[ardus]

I'm probably the wrong guy for this kind of advice as I have never had a successful long term relationship, and honestly don't even work towards that idea anymore but here's my 2 cents.

It sounds to me like there were things going on from both sides of your relationship that the other partner wasn't comfortable with. It sounds cliche to say it, but in my experience if you communicate your wants and needs up front, things are less likely to result in problems. That being said, people are human, we're imperfect, and even when we love and care about someone we will sometimes do things we know are hurtful just because they feel good to us at the time.

I'm sorry that you lost your love, but don't let that drown you. You have to do what's best for you in life.

This is a good place for finding caring people who are willing to listen.

I hope things look up for you soon.

Richard

[MisterTinkles]

First, YOU have done NOTHING wrong!! Lets break this problem down to the basics.....you can see the problem more clearly when you do this.

Your Boyfriend:
*kept pushing you away when it came to sex.
*kept you at "arms length" most of the time.
*from my viewpoint, has never totally been honest with you.
*gave you PERMISSION to have sex with others, if thats what you wanted.
*cant seem to be bothered with organizing his life in respect to school, work, and you.

You:
*catering to his every need.
*from my viewpoint, treating him like he's a fragile china teacup and not a grown man.
*allowing him the opportunities to cheat on you.
*not seek couples counseling/therapy.
*not keeping your own personal banking account.

My Suggestions/Comments:
1. Its difficult beyond reason for ANYBODY to have any kind of serious relationship while in school.
2. Both of you should have just stayed separated and lived in your separate spaces until after graduation.
3. You should have had him go to HIV/AIDS counseling - he seems to need it badly.
4. Both of you should have talked to gay couples counseling BEFORE attempting to live together at any point in your lives, especially since both of you cant seem to tell each other the truth or whats going on in your minds...BEFORE it blows up into an argument.
5. BOTH of you are extremely stressed out....there is WAY too much going on in both of your lives to handle.

My recommendations:
1. BOTH of you need to get stabilized in your OWN personal lives BEFORE attempting any relationship of any kind.
2. BOTH of you need couples counseling.
3. He NEEDS HIV/AIDS counseling.
4. BOTH of you need your own separate bank accounts. If you want a joint account, thats fine, but keep one account for your own.
5. FINISH SCHOOL AND GET STABLE IN A JOB BEFORE YOU EVEN ATTEMPT ANY KIND OF RELATIONSHIP AGAIN!!! That means a steady paycheck, some money in the bank, and a decent place to live!


Both of you sound like your heads need sorting out. Both of you have to figure out WHO you are, WHAT you want out of life (not as a couple), and WHERE you are going in life. When you have figured out your own individual lives, and had some counseling, then both of you can see if you still feel the same way about each other. If you do, the counselors can help you develop a better working relationship than what you had before.


Well, thats my opinion on the matter.
Hope you can get something out of it.

[pellaz]

i think MisterTinkles has good advice, if it apples. That is finish school, get an employ and stabilize your live. Than re think your relationship issues. What ever you choose best wishes. Oh!... welcome to gay speak.

[Bowyn Aerrow]

I ended my 14 year relationship last year. He is positive, I am negative... When we met he was negative, 2 nearly 3 years into the relationship he came home with a positive test score. Yeah that lead to a few questions.

Sex suddenly became taboo, and died off completely. That 'fear of getting you contaminated' is apparently a common problem for Mixed Status Relationships.

And it does lead to interesting issues when it comes to the idea of monogamy. In my case I was faithfully monogamous, which meant celibacy for me. For him... well I would discover about 12 years later that he continued on with sex with many, many men.

Shit happens I guess. People make mistakes, having HIV as the third wheel in your relationship adds to the stress and makes things a lot more complicated - leads to more mistakes.

Can this relationship be fixed? Perhaps - couples therapy, and both of your getting counseling for living with HIV. Yes both of you, sure you do not personally have it but he does and his HIV is going to affect you in and out of bed - after 12 years I assure you that living with the pills, the side effects of the pills and every little cut he gets sending him into a panic when you want to slap a plaster on is draining.



Should you try to fix it and try again? IDK.

Personally one of the lessons I am taking from my 14 year relationship is I will never, ever, ever get involved with a person with HIV. And if the next partner I get involved with comes home with a positive test score its going to be 'Good-bye and Thanks for all the fish.'

Yes that sounds cruel and a lot of people will most likely dump on me for that, however I been there, did that and I know that I am not a person who is able to deal with the day to day issues of HIV.

That is my lesson that I learned. I have no idea what your lesson is, what it is you learned and where you are at mentally and emotionally with living in a mixed status relationship.

No doubt you two both still love each other. He was hurt - that comes with the territory of love, however was it reasonable for him to expect you to go sexless for the rest of your life for him?

The only real mistake here is that both of you failed to address the HIV mixed status early in this relationship and sex couples therapy and HIV counseling and try to work with it instead of work around it. I think a lot of mixed status couples make this mistake - we enter into the relationship not fully understanding the full impact that HIV has. Live and learn.

[Nick9]

Hi and welcome to GS,

somehow, I can't find where exactly you "messed up."

Maybe because I think that it was actually your bf who did?

You both tried to make it work for years. I am afraid that it's the time to move on. He does repeatedly things that make you question him. But you always push it to the background and believe him and want to make things right.
Perhaps for us, the strangers, it is easier to see things more clearly. It won't be easy to breakup and there will be many times you will want to go back, but I believe that after two - three months you will realize that you can find joy in the life without him and without constant doubts and worry.

Btw, nice, how he turned everything around and made you the bad guy in the relationship...

[Lordswitch]

Cheers for the replies,


Mister Tinkles, good points, but I feel I need to explain some parts just to get it clear.

We both have an MA from University. We lived together (sharing a house) as is common in the UK during our MA year. Moving to Sweden after the MA as he got an opportunity for an internship that then led to a very high paying job at a multinational. The reason we stayed with my parents is because of housing shortage. In that part of Sweden this is normal, then we had our own place. Both of us bringing in money.
In Amsterdam, both of us worked (I simply did my PhD part-time whilst having a full-time job) and Living in Amsterdam is expensive. You have to rent furnished if you don't then its basically an empty shell, sometimes without flooring. So our home together is two separate contracts with one landlord.

Whilst I worked i was bringing in a lot of money, enough to save up so that I could do 2.5 years of PhD without having to work. we had discussed this and we knew I had to move back to the UK with him staying in Amsterdam. he decided to pay for the rent as he liked the place, and I paid rent in college.
he has been working non-stop since he left Uni and has a great career, so he doesn't need to juggle school etc anymore.

When I came back to live with him I had some money saved up still but he was happy to keep paying rent on his own and help me out since we both wanted me to just get my Thesis done asap. We have separate accounts but were on joint money. We had a very domestic old school (heteronormative) approach. doesn't matter if he is jobless for a while, I help, doesn't matter if I am jobless, he helps etc.
I still had my bank account(s) (one for each country of residence. Welcome to europe ) with emergency money, So I'm not starving.

As for the other advice, I agree. I tried to get him to do HIV counceling, I tried to get him to deal with it. I had counceling for it. He didn't. We should have gone to couples therapy or a sexologist here. He didn't want to deal with that.

Generally, we had a very good relationship. Gotten through more than most others. We were very good at communicating about everything -except- this. we were both caring and took very good care of eachother in many ways. I think our heads are very sorted out knowing what we want from life. However it is true that:

-my ex needs to deal with his status in a much more mature way.
-I was perhaps too accommodating.

In the end, this will hopefully allow us both to grow as people and whether we stay in eachothers lives or not (in whatever format) will not be resolved for a little while longer.

We both have growing and learning to do. He just turned 28 and I am turning 30 in a month or so. It was a hell of a ride.
After this breakup it will take me time to recover so by the time I should be ready for anything new at all, I will have finished my PhD and also working at my department.

Thank you everyone for the kind words and welcome. I appreciate it. I flip between excruciating guilt and realism.
I think the guilt isn't because of the sex itself. It is because of the emotions that went with it. and the hurt I have caused.
He always felt safe and relaxed in my arms and it feels so strange not to have him here when I know he is hurting, and I feel so odd not having him now I am hurting.

Time is the great healer though, as they say. I guess its normal feeling that "there is nobody else out there" at this stage. :/

[Bowyn Aerrow]

^^^ actually all of that tells me volumes about how well you are handling it all and how well you will be in future. You are doing far, far better than most people would be in this type of situation.

[MisterTinkles]

Ok, that sheds a little more "light" on the subject.

With that additional information, I would say you both were each others "crutches" during some very stressful times. You both were more just "someone to lean on" rather than being a couple. When you tried to make it as a couple, it failed, fights happened, feelings were hurt.

From your latest description, it seems like you were both using each other. For whatever reasons....stress relief, guilt, depression, or just scared of being alone.

If you both feel that there is something to "save" between you, then seek counseling.
If not, then shake hands and go your separate ways.

As Bowyn Aerrow states, "mixed" relationships are very hard for most people to deal with.

I think your ex's self loathing and self fear factors are more than he can deal with, so he ends up doing all the types of things he's done.

I've only spoken with a few people who have HIV or AIDS. Had a fuck buddy who got HIV from someone else. I can say that people who get this disease change dramatically. They dont see themselves as human beings anymore. They see themselves as less than human, sub humans, lowest on the humanity levels, etc...

I had one guy who I met online once. He seemed super nice and very smart. After a few emails to each other, he said he had HIV, and told me he had a hard time making friends because everybody "ran away" after they found out his status. I told him it didnt matter to me, I liked him for who he was. I can deal with it, shit happens, he's still a person worth my time, etc...

I never heard from him again.

I can only imagine its a huge blow to find someone who says they will like you just because of you, when the rest of the world has treated you like a leper.

Point being, it is very difficult for some people to get around the fact that they are still human beings, regardless of the disease they have.

Regardless of your final decision, you tried. And now you have more information on what is needed in a relationship, especially one that deals with diseases.

Sometimes knowledge comes at a price. But at least you have that knowledge to help guide you in the future.

[Counselor]

It sounds like the relationship was rocky overall, with too little talking between you two. I like to tout the "communication is key" diatribe, but I find it saves future grief more often than hiding insecurities and fears when it comes to the relationship.

I recommend spending time thinking about the drawbacks you "settled for" and stick to your principles for a while until you are comfortable with who you are without him.