VileKyle Wrote:Huh? I don't think it's okay to criticize either religion. The religion itself is just a belief, and there's nothing wrong with that.
When that religion is responsible for thousands of years of bloodshed of millions upon millions of innocent people
(wars, genocide, torture... all that godly stuff),
and the persecution of millions upon millions of innocent people who simply didn't follow or believe in it's rubbish beliefs...
there's plenty wrong with that.
VileKyle Wrote:Now on the other hand, I think it is perfectly okay to criticize members of a belief. Just don't criticize them based on their religion. For example: I will criticize the Pope all the time. I will also criticize Muslims who use their religion for harm. I just don't attack the religion that they claim to belong to.
I see nothing wrong with criticizing people based on believing and following a religion,
and nothing wrong with criticizing (or attacking) a religion on it's own.
Fuck it,
I do both!
They get free passes for criticizing and attacking me
all the time
because it's politically correct
within their religious contexts to do so...
so fuck that!
No one deserves special treatment
because they belong to some cult...
I mean religion.
SolemnBoy Wrote:Based on scripture alone, neither Islam nor Christianity are particularly friendly and both religions should be criticized more or less equally - respectfully of course.
On the basis of respect:
(somewhat off topic)
Respect needs to be earned...
Someone demanding respect simply for being a christian,
muslim, catholic, priest, pastor, rabbi, and so on deserves a slap in the face.
I respect people for their character, not their religion!
If I were to respect people exclusively for their religious beliefs,
or for the roles they play within their places of worship...
well, I'd be the most gullible piece of trash on the planet.
(Like, sadly, most people in the world are today, for that very reason.)
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Dreamer, you're listing reasons to dislike the practitioners of a faith who caused those events. The religions themselves did not cause anything like that. It was only twisted people who used personal beliefs to twist religion to their own use. Sorry, but you aren't picking apart my point with that logic.
You also shouldn't attack people just because they attack you, nor should you attack their "group" just because some of their members attacked you. The religion didn't do the attacking. The individuals did. If you are going to return poop flinging with more poop flinging, at least know who thew it at you first.
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VileKyle, when one's faith, or religion tells them to do all of these things....
I think it's perfectly fine and accurate to fling poop back at the religion,
and it's followers for doing so,
as well as at followers who never did,
yet continue to follow a religion that tells them to do so.
The religion, as you say, obviously didn't do the attacking because it's not an individual,
but a belief system(created by another individual),
that told the individual to do the attacking..
Religion, sure it gets twisted, but in the real scope of things is twisted enough on it's own to get criticized for telling people to do horrid things.
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Dreamer Wrote:VileKyle, when one's faith, or religion tells them to do all of these things....
I think it's perfectly fine to throw shit back at the religion,
and it's followers for doing so,
as well as at followers who never did,
but continue following a religion that tells them to do so.
The religion obviously didn't do the attacking because it's not an individual,
but a belief system(created by another individual),
that told the individual to do the attacking..
People will do things because they want to do them, not because others persuaded them into doing it. Religion is supposed to enforce peace, so when people attack you they are acting outside of that religion, whether they think they are or not. I understand you are angry, and you have every right to be. You just need to take a step back and reevaluate what you are really angry at. People caused your pain, not some book that they read.
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VileKyle Wrote:Religion is supposed to enforce peace, ... I wish that was true.
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Geminize Wrote:I wish that was true.
"Supposed to" are the key words there, so it is true. It's just unfortunate that so many people use religions in ways that they are not intended for. That's the whole problem here. I'm also not religious mainly because of that issue.
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VileKyle Wrote:religion didn't do the attacking. The individuals did. If you are going to return poop flinging with more poop flinging, at least know who thew it at you first.
That's like giving legal immunity to Charles Manson because,
despite giving his "family" rules and obligations to live by,
he himself did not commit the murders.
Brainwashing someone to do something does not make you completely innocent from the something they did because you are indirectly responsible.
You can't say you are free of guilt, despite being directly associated, with what they did.
Hypothetically speaking:
If a muslim or christian man were to murder a homosexual person based on what the qur'an or bible says,
in America,
the courts would
(if it were a living, breathing individual)
prosecute islam or christianity,
along with the muslim or christian man who committed the murder.
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Dreamer Wrote:
That's like giving legal immunity to Charles Manson because,
despite giving his "family" rules and obligations to live by,
he himself did not commit the murders.
Brainwashing someone to do something does not make you completely innocent from the something they did because you are indirectly responsible.
You can't say you are free of guilt, despite being directly associated, with what they did.
Hypothetically speaking:
If a muslim or christian man were to murder a homosexual person based on what the qur'an or bible says,
in America,
the courts would
(if it were a living, breathing individual)
prosecute islam or christianity,
along with the muslim or christian man who committed the murder.
Now you're confusing brainwashing with religion. They aren't the same thing at all. Religion is a belief system, not a method of attacking people. There may be people involved with the religion who try to brainwash others, but the religion itself does not call for brainwashing. Be mad at the twisters, not at what has been twisted. As I said, you can get angry at the individuals who twist the system, but the system itself is not attacking anyone. You still have the right to be angry, but you are also still directing your anger the wrong direction.
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VileKyle Wrote:Now you're confusing brainwashing with religion. They aren't the same thing at all. Religion is a belief system, not a method of attacking people.
That's HIGHLY debatable!
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Dreamer Wrote:That's HIGHLY debatable!
Here's my reasoning in case you aren't getting my point. Brainwashing is used within religion, and that is wrong. Go ahead and be angry at those within the religions who use brainwashing techniques. There are also people within religions who have never used or been used by brainwashing techniques. You can't be angry at them. Religion isn't causing the brainwashing to be used. Individuals are using brainwashing to enforce their beliefs on others. The beliefs are not wrong. The method of forcing beliefs is wrong though.
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