VileKyle Wrote:Here's my reasoning in case you aren't getting my point. Brainwashing is used within religion, and that is wrong. Go ahead and be angry at those within the religions who use brainwashing techniques.
First off,
stop dismissing my argument with your tone,
down-playing my argument as petty "anger"....
I'm not angry...
I'm making my point.
VileKyle Wrote:There are also people within religions who have never used or been used by brainwashing techniques.
Definition of Brainwashing:
1. Intensive, forcible indoctrination, usually political or religious, aimed at destroying a person's basic convictions and attitudes and replacing them with an alternative set of fixed beliefs.
2. The application of a concentrated means of persuasion, such as an advertising campaign or repeated suggestion, in order to develop a specific belief or motivation.
That pretty much defines how anyone falls into theism.
No one is born religious.
You have to be indoctrinated first.
VileKyle Wrote:You can't be angry at them.
Again,
I'm not angry.
If anything,
I pity their vulnerability and simple-mindedness.
VileKyle Wrote:Religion isn't causing the brainwashing to be used. Individuals are using brainwashing to enforce their beliefs on others.
Actually,
religion does indeed call for it's followers to brainwash others
(e.g. "spreading the word of god"),
because without those individuals,
religion wouldn't exist.
(Therefore, religion is causing the brainwashing to occur.)
VileKyle Wrote:The beliefs are not wrong. The method of forcing beliefs is wrong though.
That's the only method that exists, essentially.
And yes,
those beliefs are shrouded in ignorance,
and very wrong,
if you put into account the value of intelligence.
![[-]](https://gayspeak.com/images/duende_v3_local/collapse.png)
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Of course it's ok to criticize and question religion. If i think something is horrible and detrimental to society.....i'm gonna tell you.
Mick
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On the basis of respect:
(somewhat off topic)
Respect needs to be earned...
Someone demanding respect simply for being a christian,
muslim, catholic, priest, pastor, rabbi, and so on deserves a slap in the face.
I respect people for their character, not their religion!
If I were to respect people exclusively for their religious beliefs,
or for the roles they play within their places of worship...
well, I'd be the most gullible piece of trash on the planet.
(Like, sadly, most people in the world are today, for that very reason.)[/align][/QUOTE]
WTF. Are you serious? respect needs to be earned that's f**ked up. You just respect people for what they are and no one has to justify themselves to another person. seriously haven't you ever been thought to just respect people and that it isn't earned? How would you feel if someone said to you im not going to respect because you are gay, noo you respect someone because they are human.
By the way this is regarding a statement made by DREAMER
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Dreamer Wrote:[align=center]
First off,
stop dismissing my argument with your tone,
down-playing my argument as petty "anger"....
I'm not angry...
I'm making my point.
How do I have a tone? I'm typing. You're clearly angry though because of the specific point you are trying to make. You hate religion. I get that and I'm trying to tell you the flaws in your point.
Dreamer Wrote:Definition of Brainwashing:
1. Intensive, forcible indoctrination, usually political or religious, aimed at destroying a person's basic convictions and attitudes and replacing them with an alternative set of fixed beliefs.
2. The application of a concentrated means of persuasion, such as an advertising campaign or repeated suggestion, in order to develop a specific belief or motivation.
That pretty much defines how anyone falls into theism.
Again, that does happen in religion. That does not always happen in religion as a rule though. I don't know where you are getting that. Just because some people do something, does not mean that all people like them do the same thing. I think that's called prejudice. You might want to rethink that.
Dreamer Wrote:No one is born religious.
You have to be indoctrinated first.
Plenty of people choose to be religious. How can you assume that everyone is forced into it?
Dreamer Wrote:Again,
I'm not angry.
If anything,
I pity their vulnerability and simple-mindedness.
You're making personal attacks. I think that says enough about your motives.
Dreamer Wrote:Actually,
religion does indeed call for it's followers to brainwash others
(e.g. "spreading the word of god"),
because without those individuals,
religion wouldn't exist.
(Therefore, religion is causing the brainwashing to occur.)
Informing others of your beliefs is neither indoctrination nor brainwashing. It's information. You can choose to listen or ignore it, much like you are ignoring me. Or am I brainwashing you right now?
If you listen to yourself, you are acting exactly like the religious fanatics that you hate. Your "logic" follows their exact patterns. You have much in common, yet you think you are so different.
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I don't see why atheists shouldn't be as outspoken as many religionists are. They are always telling everyone how to live their lives, as if it's any of their business. Religion should be the same as sex: done in private between consenting adults.
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Spellbound Wrote:I don't see why atheists shouldn't be as outspoken as many religionists are. They are always telling everyone how to live their lives, as if it's any of their business. Religion should be the same as sex: done in private between consenting adults.
So religion should be practiced in private. I won't argue with that at all. So if outspoken atheism deserves the same rights (which I also don't argue with), it should also be practiced in private. You get one or the other, not both. Double standards are bad. Of course, this point doesn't really change the state of the world. It's obviously hypothetical anyways.
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Why on earth should religion have to be a purely private thing? Sure, it should stay far away from politics and not intrude on other people's rights but harmless religious practices done out in the open: why not?
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VileKyle Wrote:So religion should be practiced in private. I won't argue with that at all. So if outspoken atheism deserves the same rights (which I also don't argue with), it should also be practiced in private. You get one or the other, not both. Double standards are bad. Of course, this point doesn't really change the state of the world. It's obviously hypothetical anyways.
We agree I think. If the religionists shut up, I will too. Of course they won't though.
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SolemnBoy Wrote:Why on earth should religion have to be a purely private thing? Sure, it should stay far away from politics and not intrude on other people's rights but harmless religious practices done out in the open: why not?
No they're not, they're done in a church or a mosque or a synagogue, away from other people. There are bans on public exhibition of religious symbols too. There's plenty of religion in public life, clerics sit in parliament and the religious right are a big influence in the States. That's what I mean, don't try and influence other people in public affairs.
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Spellbound Wrote:We agree I think. If the religionists shut up, I will too. Of course they won't though.
And neither will you. Nobody will cease fire first. It ends up being pointless to debate over who should lay down their "weapons" before the other does. What some people fail to realize is that there are people on both sides who aren't even trying to enforce anything either way. Some people can keep to themselves with their beliefs, even if they do occasionally share personal ideas with others.
... unless you want me to start ranting about the proper Jedi teachings. Should I join in on that too? 
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