Why is it okay to criticize Christianity but not Islam?

[SeaDevil]

Can you name twenty that aren't?

Naming one that isn't suffices to prove "all" is incorrect, and prejudiced. Holy Family in West Seattle.

[SeaDevil]

And I'd like to add that I'm not a member of a religion, in the western sense, anyway.

[Counselor]

Naming one that isn't suffices to prove "all" is incorrect, and prejudiced. Holy Family in West Seattle.

While this is mathematically correct, I maintain that only one of hundreds can be called an example, and not common.

[Dreamer]

Prejudice is pre-judging based on anything. It doesn't matter if it's from personal experience our not, the moment you add "all" to the mix, you're evoking a prejudice.

I stand corrected,
in the sense that I failed to state the obvious
that not all religious people
go out of their way to indoctrinate (brainwash) others into their beliefs.
Most, if not all of my friends, family,
and other people I know are religious
(so I know this to be very true).

From birth,
I was brainwashed into religion,
like most people are.

One day, in a yearning to become closer to god,
despite years of Sunday school,
youth groups, and sleeping during church,
I actually read the bible in it's entirety...
and ironically enough,
became a free-thinking atheist,
from that experience.

I don't hate people who are religious,
(if I did, I'd be one lonely MF)
I just hate their religion.

And, to clarify
(which I've failed to do on this thread, so far),
I'm referring mostly to organized religion.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Sylph,
I'm assuming
(and correct me if I'm wrong for accusing),
with these quotes below,
you're referring to myself,
from the exchange I had with VileKyle on this thread.

And people often criticize and judge what they do not understand or fear.

It's just really a lack of understanding...

I understand organized religion.
I was stuck in one,
for a majority of my life.

I'm not speaking of
(as in your case),
"spirituality", nature,
the trees, the sun...
and all that fun stuff.

Have at it hoss!
I'm down with that!

It's not hurting anyone.

My problem is with major organized religion which has poisoned humanity to a rotten core.
The kind that has conquered the human brain for thousands of years,
bringing forth zealot zombies to spread and rule the world,
suppressing advances in science and education,
the social progression and acceptance of important issues
(like abortion, gay rights, and safe sex to name a few),
while continuing the persecution, genocide,
rape, misogyny, and torture of people everywhere.
(VileKyle, this is a non-disputable fact, not merely "personal belief")

And yes,
[B]I fear[/B] religion,
not of mere ignorance
(because I understand it quite well),
but of the ongoing catastrophic consequences brought on by it.

Yes, not everybody whose religious
contributes to these horrid implications
(kudos to them!),
but for all those that do in the name of religion,
happen to be religious.

And again
(to clarify my position),
not everyone who happen to be religious brainwash other people.

There are happily indoctrinated individuals who keep it to themselves,
and don't go knocking on people's doors to spread "the good word".
[SIZE="2"]
(I understand that, and before, overlooked having to clarify it.)[/SIZE]



(Again, I'm assuming the quote below was directed at me, Sylph, so correct me if I'm wrong on that accusation.)

Comprehension is a tool of the Wise, but a Sword to the Ignorant.

To that, I agree.

With that said, I am far from ignorant.

Yes, I went all Amanda Bynes on VileKyle,
not taking the time to really dissect and appreciate word for word what he'd responded to me with,
and misinterpreting his "tone", or whatever.
(My bad, chica)

That's just what happens when a sleep-deprived queen, low on patience, and clear-headedness falls into a debate.

I'll admit,
I came at some things
with a warped approach and execution,
but the heart of my argument remains.

[SeaDevil]

I stand corrected,
in the sense that I failed to state the obvious
that not all religious people
go out of their way to indoctrinate (brainwash) others into their beliefs.
Most, if not all of my friends, family,
and other people I know are religious
(so I know this to be very true).

From birth,
I was brainwashed into religion,
like most people are.

One day, in a yearning to become closer to god,
despite years of Sunday school,
youth groups, and sleeping during church,
I actually read the bible in it's entirety...
and ironically enough,
became a free-thinking atheist,
from that experience.

I don't hate people who are religious,
(if I did, I'd be one lonely MF)
I just hate their religion.

And, to clarify
(which I've failed to do on this thread, so far),
I'm referring mostly to organized religion.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Sylph,
I'm assuming
(and correct me if I'm wrong for accusing),
with these quotes below,
you're referring to myself,
from the exchange I had with VileKyle on this thread.




I understand organized religion.
I was stuck in one,
for a majority of my life.

I'm not speaking of
(as in your case),
"spirituality", nature,
the trees, the sun...
and all that fun stuff.

Have at it hoss!
I'm down with that!

It's not hurting anyone.

My problem is with major organized religion which has poisoned humanity to a rotten core.
The kind that has conquered the human brain for thousands of years,
bringing forth zealot zombies to spread and rule the world,
suppressing advances in science and education,
the social progression and acceptance of important issues
(like abortion, gay rights, and safe sex to name a few),
while continuing the persecution, genocide,
rape, misogyny, and torture of people everywhere.
(VileKyle, this is a non-disputable fact, not merely "personal belief")

And yes,
[B]I fear[/B] religion,
not of mere ignorance
(because I understand it quite well),
but of the ongoing catastrophic consequences brought on by it.

Yes, not everybody whose religious
contributes to these horrid implications
(kudos to them!),
but for all those that do in the name of religion,
happen to be religious.

And again
(to clarify my position),
not everyone who happen to be religious brainwash other people.

There are happily indoctrinated individuals who keep it to themselves,
and don't go knocking on people's doors to spread "the good word".
[SIZE="2"]
(I understand that, and before, overlooked having to clarify it.)[/SIZE]



(Again, I'm assuming the quote below was directed at me, Sylph, so correct me if I'm wrong on that accusation.)


To that, I agree.

With that said, I am far from ignorant.

Yes, I went all Amanda Bynes on VileKyle,
not taking the time to really dissect and appreciate word for word what he'd responded to me with,
and misinterpreting his "tone", or whatever.
(My bad, chica)

That's just what happens when a sleep-deprived queen, low on patience, and clear-headedness falls into a debate.

I'll admit,
I came at some things
with a warped approach and execution,
but the heart of my argument remains.

Where I live, most people aren't into religion. Neither of my parents were religious, nor are the majority of my classmates. Just having done a humanities course that emphasized all of our backgrounds, it's not just a guess, either.

You can't assume that because of what it's like for you or others in your area, that it's the majority everywhere. The entire western seaboard and the Pacific northwest are pretty non-religious, save for politics.

[bluefox4000]

I understand organized religion too. Grew right up in it. Was pumped full of ideas before i could muster a defense. So Yes......that's EXACTLY what they do. By the same token I know not everyone is like that. Having said THAT.....I know those people are hard to find. But oh yea...they exist.

Mick

[ardus]

Ok upfront I admit a couple of things.

First. I only skimmed a lot of the posts.
Second. I know that I am biased against Muslims for killing my friends.

It's not easy to be open minded about a topic like this for me.

I think in general all organized religions are problematic.

I do know a few things.

The people who killed my friends in Iraq and Afghanistan were Muslim.

The people who planned and executed an attack on the US
That killed upwards of 3500 people, 9/11 obviously, were muslims.

So I'm a bit jaded about Muslims.

I know someone will bring up the crusades, but that was motivated by economics religion was just what those in power used to motivate the people.

Anyway

Richard

[Wade]

Ok upfront I admit a couple of things.

First. I only skimmed a lot of the posts.
Second. I know that I am biased against Muslims for killing my friends.

It's not easy to be open minded about a topic like this for me.

I think in general all organized religions are problematic.

I do know a few things.

The people who killed my friends in Iraq and Afghanistan were Muslim.

The people who planned and executed an attack on the US
That killed upwards of 3500 people, 9/11 obviously, were muslims.

So I'm a bit jaded about Muslims.

I know someone will bring up the crusades, but that was motivated by economics religion was just what those in power used to motivate the people.

Anyway

Richard

The crusades were not motivated only by economics. Even at the very top, Pope Urban II, Peter the Hermit, even the barons leading the armies were all greatly motivated by religious glory, and the restoration of Christ's birthright.

It was motivated initially by Alexius Comnemnus and Byzantium wanting to get rid of the Moslem Turkish threat, and Pope Urban II seized on the opportunity to take back the Sepulchre. "God wills it!"

[VileKyle]

Thanks Dreamer. That's all I was really trying to say: it's okay to disagree with a belief, but it's not okay to take that out on the innocents of that belief who did nothing wrong. Yes, there are many people within multiple religions who have made the world a worse place, but that burden can't be placed on the others who are just trying to live a peaceful life.

As for disagreeing with organized religions, I do too. I grew up in a Christian family, but didn't end up seeing anything to connect with. People were reaching for anything they could find in religion to give their lives deeper value, but I never found anything in it. I remain completely agnostic at this point because I don't agree with any religion I've discovered, but I also don't know for sure what the right answer is. Maybe others have found their answers already, but my answers definitely lie elsewhere.

[Pix]

I know that I am biased against Muslims for killing my friends

You should hear what some Muslims say that America has done them for decades before 9/11 ever happened. If they did to us what we did to them I bet we'd be doing worse to them today (at least if not scared of being nuked for it).

That said, sorry to hear about the loss of your friends. It's just everyone is going to be complaining about the loss of friends, family, loved ones, cradling dead children and seeing people cheer at their misfortune on ALL sides until people can actually look at the individuals responsible rather than an entire demographic. I mean when Timothy McVeigh blew away the building in Oklahoma City we didn't therefore go bomb New York (and I can't imagine how it would be justified or helpful in the least if we had, bombing NY instead of going after McVeigh would've just made a bunch more McVeighs, or as the sticker explains, creating enemies faster than we can kill them).

ETA: or put another way on turning people who aren't enemies into enemies by treating them all the same:




Also, a lesson in karma (again, emphasized, that's regarding how one treats a demographic, not how one treats the actual guilty parties within that demographic).