religion

[pellaz]

... I'm hanging up my bow and going in search of another place which is a bit more inclusive.

being inclusive goes both ways.

[Counselor]

I have cooled off a bit, and will approach this subject rationally without the anger I was feeling yesterday.

Apparently its not ok to go around and make general statements of gays sticking their dicks in children's mouths - it insinuates that all gays are child molesters. I bet everyone here gets their panties in a bunch when that general conclusion is made, even in a joke form.

But it appears perfectly ok to insinuate that people with a faith, a religion, Christians are child molesters?

Yes both groups have their child molesters, The Church is in the news with priesthood antics which are shameful - Gays have NAMBLA... just because a few individuals have such horrific proclivities does not give us a right to make it a laughing matter and definitely doesn't open the door to the assumption that all members of that group are horrific people.

And I bet when some 'Christian' spouts off out at the mouth that Gay = pedophile, or that the Gay Agenda is indoctrinating youth that it hurts you, even if it is not directed at you specifically.

In the years that I have been here religion has been vomited up and the ugly spews forth over and over and over again. It becomes mean, it becomes ugly and it ultimately makes me wonder if some members here ain't laughing behind my back, snickering at my faith.

Last month another such thread came up and I mentioned I didn't fell welcomed here. I don't. This gayspeak place seems to be a place for Gay Atheists only. I bet you won't stick around at a place that has Anti-LGBT retoric thrown up over and over again. I bet you would grow to be offended by it and would tire of it and either scream at everyone or just leave.

Yeah I know no one is pointing their finger at me directly when they make their comments, just like no one points their finger directly at you when commenting on your brand of sexuality. But it still hurts - doesn't it?

I do have a thick skin, I listened/read this sort of stuff here for years and accepted it with a grain of salt. But.... skin can only be so thick.

This is the straw that breaks the camel's back Its not the singular post, the singular 'act' that drives me away. It is the over all attitude and the amount of anti-christian/anti-religious posts that always turn back to meanness and anger.

I recently went through a crisis of faith and had NO ONE to turn to with that problem. I wanted to start a thread here asking for help, but I knew that what that would turn out to be some general 'Christian Bashing' thread.

I saw what everyone had to say to Tyler when he came here with his crises of faith. It wasn't that nice, it wasn't pretty. I doubt it was very helpful.

There are a lot of other LGBT Christians, Muslims, Jews who are seeking a place where they can be accepted not just for their faith, not just for their sexuality but for everything they are which includes their brand of faith, their sexuality, their race, gender whatever. I doubt, seriously doubt that this is such a place.

The LGBT has a Rainbow flag, which is supposed to signify diversity - Like it or not Christianity, Islam, Judaism is part of that diversity in our community. Threads like these, posts of anger/hatred/slamming pointing out the flaws of religions is not very supporting of the diversity that exists.



So I'm hanging up my bow and going in search of another place which is a bit more inclusive.

My counter:

I was raised under the impressions of every stereotype of LGBT being wagged in my face as the only examples of the the most disgusting behavior imaginable, not only by those chosen by god, but to god itself.

I sympathize and defend the right for any LGBT person that has realized the damage religion has done to them to state their opinion on it. I felt I needed to embrace my "evil" in order to be happy, but I still felt the shame. And oh, does it make my blood boil when someone uses shame or guilt to manipulate my behavior? . . . probably closer to something along the lines of sublimation, from liquid to vapor without a measurable increment of time.

I STILL, TO THIS DAY, AM TIED DOWN BY THE INDOCTRINATION.

It infuriates me. I was never provided the opportunity to think for myself and reach my own conclusions. I tell myself I am god in my own life to reassure myself that I am not condemned when this life is over, and the idea that there is nothing more powerful than chance still unnerves me.

There are more LGBT members here that have been damaged by religious upbringing than "saved".

How about this:

"Being LGBT in a church is like thinking you gave ebola to a maternity ward, and set fire to a veterinarian's hospital, and bombed a nursing home with napalm, and ate your infant nephew's intestines while he was alive and screaming, during a nauseating acid trip and remembering EVERY SINGLE DETAIL and having to live with it, and you'll never be happy because of all the evil you've committed."

^That sums up the sensation I experienced growing up gay in church. I detest and curse all the shame and guilt I was told was waiting for me for wanting to be happy. I will not look for another religion to lean on. I was lied to, and I will not flinch when it comes to this.

David, you are an amazing man. I am sorry that what fills you is the same thing I so readily bare my teeth for. I know you are in a tough place lately, and this topic doesn't help in the least to keep you assured. I know you are stronger than you think, and I wish you had realized it before now.

[Pix]

I recently went through a crisis of faith and had NO ONE to turn to with that problem. I wanted to start a thread here asking for help, but I knew that what that would turn out to be some general 'Christian Bashing' thread.

Again, the "keep it in your pants" metaphor, not meant to be taken literally. That said, I can see what you're saying here. Frankly, and I'm sorry if this hurts you, but I see way too much damage done in its name, and seeing gays embrace it (and blacks who had once had their slavery justified by it and it forced upon them by their masters, and others still, because let's be honest Christianity would probably be less well known today than Jainism had epic warfare, torture, inquisitions, and mass executions not happened for several centuries rather than people thinking "Oh, how sweet and inspiring, let's convert") seems damaging...at the very least, IMO, they need to alter the religion (as so many other Christians have done through the ages) to "suck the poison out" rather than wonder why the Church doesn't give up its bigotry and why gays who struggled with violence, hate, and suicidal thoughts because of it don't just accept that it's REALLY a good religion (and pretending the majority is the minority and the gay-friendly minority is the majority). I doubt I'd have brought it up but I probably wouldn't have been supportive either (anymore than I would of someone wanting a reason to return to an abuser because "he's really a good man, deep down") unless it was something like asking where gay friendly churches are (not to be confused with mainstream Christianity).

But if you want to find someplace more "inclusive" as you define it then I suggest a board specifically for gay Christians. Surely they exist.

That's what the Christian goths did (back when I interacted with that subculture). So many had put up with Christian crap (though not as much as the LGBT) that it tended to be a sore point with them, too, and the devoutly Christian goths felt trapped between 2 communities that rejected something crucial about who they were. Two Christian goth boards rose up (many years ago, don't know if they still exist, if they merged, or what) and a few members even stayed connected with the regular goth and/or Christian community while retreating to their own for moral support when either side came down on them a little hard (or felt that a side had by speaking about the other aspect in general terms rather than specific).

[starbelly]

I thank my lucky stars that I was raised with religious neutrality in my childhood. My mom is Catholic and my dad is an agnostic, and I was never forced into any extreme religious upbringing or conditioning. In my teens I dabbled with Catholicism and went to mass with my mom sometimes, but that religion is not for me.

I practice Nichiren Buddhism now and that's about as close to "religion" as I'll ever get. I contemplated religion for the majority of my life, and I've come to the conclusion that Buddhism is the most fulfilling and supportive path for me. I try not to rag on people's faiths, even if they're vapidly homophobic Evangelists.

It is frustrating however for me to see children who are brought up knowing nothing else. Children should not be forced into any religious persuasion, because that's in essence brainwashing and it forces the child to think a certain way rather than them coming to a spiritual enlightenment or actual "faith" themselves. I applaud parents who encourage religious faith in their children but don't choose or force it upon them. It's a personal thing, and a personal experience, and raising your kids with a strict set of religious beliefs confines them. Your religious faith should be an organic experience— it's your path, not one that should be chosen by someone else and transposed upon you. It's that fatalistic attitude that leads parents to force their kids into a religion out of fear of "saving them".

[Joshular]

I'm just sayn!