Drag behavior.

[Pix]

What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. Judge not lest ye be judged. What comes around goes around. You sow what you reap. Or applied to this thread, if you can vilify them then others can vilify you. If you don't like it then I suggest practicing some variant of the Golden Rule in the future about treating others with the same respect you wish to be treated with...or at least wait until someone else starts it for you to finish it.

Free tip: focus on the bad behavior, not the drag. Not all gay men are bad, not all drag queens are bad, but there are plenty of both (they are human beings after all) with plenty of individual bad habits and nobody's perfect. And as some Yiddish saying I recently saw goes, "Never judge a person unless you have walked his path with the same stones in your shoes." That applies to drag queens as much as it does to you.

[Joshular]

Some dragqueens are bitches some are lovely. Also I sometimes get confuzzled am I suppose to treat drag queens like girls??? Cos that's how I see them

[trialbyerror]

Hi Pix

Ahhhh the nuances of the English language!
Being Africkaans (Which is a hotch-potch of <amongst others> German Dutch Flemmish) and having to translate (mentally) into English, which is the most complicated and perplexing language does sometimes pose a wee bit of a problem to me.

So! Good old Wiki

opinion
In general, an opinion is a judgment, viewpoint, or statement about matters commonly considered to be subjective, i.e. based on that which is less than absolutely certain, and is the result of emotion or interpretation of facts. What distinguishes fact from opinion is that facts are verifiable, i.e. can be objectively proven to have occurred. An example is: "America was involved in the Vietnam War" versus "America was right to get involved in the Vietnam War". An opinion may be supported by facts, in which case it becomes anargument, although people may draw opposing opinions from the same set of facts. Opinions rarely change without new arguments being presented. It can be reasoned that one opinion is better supported by the facts than another by analyzing the supporting arguments.[1] In casual use, the term opinion may be the result of a person's perspective, understanding, particular feelings, beliefs, and desires. It may refer to unsubstantiated information, in contrast to knowledge and fact-based beliefs.
Collective or professional opinions are defined as meeting a higher standard to substantiate the opinion. (see below)

Judgement
Judgement (or judgment[1]) is the evaluation of evidence to make a decision.[2][3][4] The term has four distinct uses:
· Informal - Opinions expressed as facts.
· Informal and psychological – used in reference to the quality of cognitive faculties and adjudicational capabilities of particular individuals, typically called wisdom ordiscernment.
· Legal – used in the context of legal trial, to refer to a final finding, statement, or ruling, based on a considered weighing of evidence, called "adjudication". See spelling notefor further explanation.
· Religious – used in the concept of salvation to refer to the adjudication of God in determining Heaven or Hell for each and all human beings.

So I suppose at a stretch one could say, that having an opinion is being judgmental, Just in the same way as in my opinion Landrover is the best 4x4 by far could also be swung around to mean all other 4x4 - off road capable vehicles are no good.

I suppose one learns something new every day....

However, In my opinion, I lump drag behavior together with a number of other predominantly gay behavioral traits as unacceptable behavior.
I do not condone it, never have and yes probably never will.
That is my opinion.

Am I correct? Perhaps not. Hence this OP why the need for this type of behavior?

At this stage I have not yet passed judgement

Is it or is it not? until I have more FACTS (from all of you wonderful people, who are gay)

So. let's have less about my particular opinion and more about why this is so prevalent in gay society, why it is necessary and perhaps with more understanding of the facts I may change my opinion....

What say you?

Kind regards
Trial

I might have to edit slightly later I don't have time right now

[26hughsie]

Drags ok , at times I find drag attractive. As for me from time to time I wear girls underwear.

[Pix]

What say you?

One, use of words like "detest" and "despise" connote judgment, not opinion. To say, "I think drag queens give us a bad image" is an opinion. To say they're unacceptable and you despise them is a judgment.

Two, it's NOT prevalent in gay society. It can be found, but it's a very small minority, and furthermore, plenty of drag queens and the like aren't even gay (I read of a poll recently that showed the majority of them were straight). Offhand, I can think of only one gay guy on GS (Sylph/Queen/Odi) who fits your description, and I see nothing wrong or harmful about him, he's actually one of the more fun and pleasant people on GS, IMO, and I don't see how he hurts you or me.

That matches real life for me, too. Most gay men in real life (as opposed to Hollywood) are normal looking and acting (they do have to work for a living and all) only they seek to hook up with men instead of women, and offhand I can think of only one very feminine gay guy I've known well my entire life (and he was a sweetie, and I wonder in retrospect if he was intersex)...though I've seen drag queens and the like of course, but I'm not certain of their orientation (but if they make up even 10% of the gay male population I'd be surprised).

[trialbyerror]

So here's the thing

Personally, I detest drag behavior. To me, it epitomizes everything that I despise about being same-sexed. I am 100% in-tolerant of this, have always been, and always will be.

[SIZE="5"]But my personal opinion is not the point, I only put it out there to as a starting point to the discussion.
[/SIZE]
The discussion being: -
Why do so many gay guys find it so necessary to emulate woman that they will willfully make a public spectacle of themselves, and de-facto everybody else who is same-sexed?

Dear Pix
I really don't want to get into an unending ding-dong session with you. You apparently have a rag between your teeth and are deaf to what I am saying.

For the last time, whether it is my opinion or my judgment is actually irrelevant to this posting. Leave it be.

The question is why the behavior.
When I have answers I will review
Thanking you

[bluefox4000]

I'd never do drag. But I LOVE Drag queens. I admire them greatly. This is who i wanna be......so fuck you. That's awesome to me.

Mick

[trialbyerror]

Hi Pellas.
In retrospect, you are right.

What happened happened many years ago, and things have changed.

In mitigation, the consequence of that persons behaviour was almost catostrophic to what I was attempting to achieve at the time.....

Coupled together with the fact that it was one indivudual, sheepishly, I admit I may have been too hasty at the time in throwing all drags? into the same basket.

This is, after all, a debate, and I'm big and ugly enough to admit that I have been wrong, but I need convincing, and good reason convinces!

In writing the third part of the trilogy, I reflected on that, and in all fairness realised that I as an "un-informed" person may have no real justification to hold the stance I do, so where better a place to get informed than here.

Given facts that make sense, I may well decide to for-go my intolerance thereof.

Also, in reviewing OP perhaps the use of probibly in the sentance would have better reflected my current thinking.

So to summarise what has thus far been posted,

Only a few people seem to agree with me,

Some people support drag behaviour without giving a reasonable argument,

There have been a few that have motivated reasonable argument/s

but most people have taken issue with my opinion, which I think is a bit irrelavent,

And one or two have attacked me personally for having the opinion that I do, going so far as swearing at me.

What am I going to do?

The attackers I will ignore, the people who take issue with my opinion, I will try to plesantly (at first) attempt to get them to focus on the debate

But

This still needs to run a while yet. There are a lot of people who have not posted in whose point of view I would greatly value

Thanks Pellas for pointing that out to me

Regards
Trial

[VileKyle]

What am I going to do?

My advice is to stop acting like you are under attack and focus more on the actual discussion at hand. When you react strongly to people "attacking" you on a forum, you welcome more of the same behavior. Instead, I advise asking questions so you can learn both sides, even if you don't end up agreeing with the other side of the argument. Looking more into drag is really a great learning experience.

[Pix]

Dear Pix
I really don't want to get into an unending ding-dong session with you. You apparently have a rag between your teeth and are deaf to what I am saying.

I hear you just fine. When you do it then it's an opinion. When others do it right back at you then it's a judgment. However, I don't follow the Humpty Dumpty philosophy of words. And just in case you don't know what that is:

'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.'

'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you can make words mean so many different things.'

'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master — that's all.'

The question is why the behavior.
When I have answers I will review
Thanking you

And as for why the behavior of SO FEW gay men, that would depend on the individual. Some may be intersex (that is they were born both genders, many get mutilated at birth to become one gender and yet it sticks with them all the same). Two, they may be transgendered at some level, the stereotypical "woman in a man's body" and yet not willing to undergo the expensive and painful process of transitioning, and then for the same reason as straight people as shared here:

http://ezinearticles.com/?Psychology-of-...id=3774706

One common reason that men choose to crossdress, is for sexual gratification. They may get sexually exited with the feel of the feminine fabrics and clothing on their body. They may enjoy the sexual excitement that they experience from wearing feminine clothing, and in seeing their feminine image.

Another reason for crossdressing, is that men want to feel free to express the feminine side of their personality. Boys are commonly socialized to believe that they cannot portray feminine traits. They can't cry, appear weak, or be soft. Males who dress in female clothing often feel liberated to express their emotions that perhaps, they are not able to freely express as themselves. For at least a few moments, they can shed the burdens and responsibilities of being a "man." Often, this results in feelings of comfort, and reduced stress. Men wear dresses because it feels good.

Perhaps a reason for crossdressing is one that is not often expressed, but is one that I believe is common. The reason that men wear dresses, is to feel and experience the "power of a woman." What power is this? It is the power of a beautiful woman to be able to turn the heads of all the men as she enters the room. It is the power that lingerie models have when they appear on television, and spontaneously create a sensation in the groins of thousands of the men who are watching. It is the power to choose who will get their attention, and perhaps who will mate with them. It is a power that is biologically linked and has allowed the human race to propagate.

One reason that men crossdress is to feel this power, and to experience what it is to have the attributes that create this power. This may be similar to the man who puts on the power suit and expensive shoes, sits behind a big desk in the office on the twentieth floor overlooking the city, pretending he is the chief executive officer of a multi-million dollar corporation. He pretends for a day to be the top man, the millionaire corporate mogul who makes the choices. People open doors for him, bring him coffee, and open their wallets for him. This is "power" and it is very stimulating and intoxicating.

Women are also very powerful. Women are very powerful, sexually. They know this, and men know this. It is equally stimulating and intoxicating to experience this type of power for a day. Even if it is only for a moment, and within the man's head, it is a beautiful feeling to feel "sexy" and "feminine." Power as we all know, is an aphrodisiac. This is why men wear dresses, and why this practice has occurred for centuries

That's all speculation on my part, however. Perhaps if you could ask more respectfully in less judgmental tones (that is avoiding uses of words of how terrible and vile you think these people are) then maybe our own queen might deign to answer, that is if you truly seek knowledge rather than to express contempt.