Mutual betrayal.

[niveki]

Hey guys. I'm new to this forum. I sort of hate to jump right into things, but... well, crisis is crisis.

I've been with the man of my dreams for just over three years now.

For some basic background info, we are a gay male couple in a monogamous relationship in our late 20's/early 30's respectively, we do not live together (I live with my mother whom I take care of, he lives with his brother as a roommate since his parents recently relocated out of country).

Until last February I thought everything was going according to plan. There were talks of moving some things around in both of our lives and approaching moving in together at the start of 2014, sex was and always has been great and fairly frequent, we spend a healthy amount of time together and hadn't really ever experienced much problem just being around each other. Until January, when things became a little distant (mostly due to me being under incredibly pressure from work) - and then February, when my paranoia got the best of me and I went through his phone and found a couple of weeks worth of very explicit sexual communications and plans to meet up between he and 3 other men he had come into contact with via the same dating website we met through.

Things fell apart, for a bit. But we worked through them. We vacationed in paradise together in July, communication had improved. But by the beginning of August around the time of our three year anniversary, he confessed he was feeling distant again. He describes it as an 'emptiness'. It affects everything; not just us. He feels wary about life, becomes anxious over small details of existence. He promised he would not use this feeling to try and speak to other men again because he realizes this time around that it is an issue with life/stress in general and not solely based on any particular thing within our relationship - and I believe him. But my trust issues, they've grown in this time.

See, his parents live out of the country most of the time now, but when they come back, they come back for extended visits. And this extended visit happened to begin right around the time we were most deeply involved in repairing our relationship, which was around March, about a month after the "incident". His parents, not being comfortable with us or our relationship, effectively banned me from the house. The pressure of their visit and it making me unable to be around my boyfriend in what I thought of as this crucial time to mend our relationship really took a toll on me.

When they went away for a week (this past week; they arrived back today) we were supposed to spend time together both Friday and Saturday night; the first weekend we would have completely to ourselves in almost half a year.

I was excited, but he told me he had a business-related meeting he couldn't blow off on Friday night, so we would have to postpone. We exchanged some words, and he knew I was upset, but he convinced me he couldn't blow it off as he would be letting down quite a few people and might not have the opportunity again. I felt badly, and dropped the issue. Long story short, I later found out it was a regular old hangout night with the same people he goes out with every weekend, at the same bar they go to every weekend. I was very upset, but didn't want to bring it to his attention just yet. I decided to vent to a mutual friend and ask his advice; but this morning my boyfriend saw the text message I had sent to that friend. By the time I woke up, he was at the grocery store. When I texted to ask where he was, he replied only that he had packed my clothes for me and he would be taking me home as soon as he arrived back and that he didn't want to talk about it.

After dropping me off, he said only "We'll talk about it tomorrow." and drove away. The entire car ride was in silence before that.

So I'm here almost 8 hours later with my head spinning.

I've never really seen him this mad, and I'm not sure why. There are a lot of reasons, actually. In hindsight, I shouldn't have spoken to his friend about this. I only reached out because I wanted someone who knows both my boyfriend and myself well who could offer some insight. I also should not be going through his texts anymore (but does this cancel out, since obviously even though I've never spoken to another man [he once confessed to me shortly after we had decided to give things another try that he worried I might try to revenge-cheat on him] he also felt a need to go through mine?).

I feel like his making up a story about a meeting to cover up his regular hangout night with the guys means he doesn't find spending time with me to be very important, since time together for the last several months has been very hard to come by indeed. And my fear is that, if this is the case, maybe he just plain doesn't want to spend time with me. A relationship where one person doesn't feel a need to spend time around the other anymore can't survive.

What can I do? How can I convince him that I had only good intentions contacting our friend, and genuinely just needed advice?

I was not planning on throwing anything in my boyfriend's face or I would have done so simply with the knowledge of finding out that his meeting wasn't a meeting after all. I love him and I want to stay with him, he's just so hard to figure out sometimes...

[MisterTinkles]

Hmmmm.

I have only three suggestions....and this is only based on what you offered in your post.

1. I take it he is from a well to do family, so he will probably not want to cut the purse strings to that....but option 1 is for both of you to cut out the problems. Move away. FAR away, and start your new lives.

2. Apparently it is ok for him to be secretive and hide things from you, but not for you to do the same, much less mention them to any friends. Once a cheater/liar, always a cheater/liar. Leave and start your own life.

3. Counseling, and lots of it. But therapy only works if BOTH parties are true and honest in all things.
As I stated previously, a cheater/liar is always a cheater/liar. Actions speak louder than words.


If these kinds of problems have been going on and the only thing that is happening is silence, lying, and cover ups....then why even bother continuing with this. It will only get worse.

Unless you WANT to live in a soap opera life.

[Bowyn Aerrow]

You can try couples counseling, but honestly, once a cheat happens there is just too much resentment for a relationship and things just go to shit afterward no matter how hard the couple tries 'this thing' sits there and always springs to mind at the next argument.

For you, you will never fully trust anything he says again. Ever. Oh and to be certain you understand how this works, the next relationship you get into you will be struggling to assess a real threat against many perceived threats. Your trust once betrayed is always suspicious.

Yes I know, the new guy hasn't done anything, but the way this works is this is a trauma - a sufficient one that will mark you for life and you are going to have to learn how to deal with it.

when my paranoia got the best of me and I went through his phone and found a couple of weeks worth of very explicit sexual communications and plans to meet up between he and 3 other men he had come into contact with via the same dating website we met through.

If this is atypical behavior, then something he said/did didn't set right in your head. Your brain worked on the problem and came up with a solution.

Many were the times I ignored my paranoia in my last relationship. 12 years of ignoring while the ex was out having lots of fun with over 120 men.

Trust me, you do not want to be that guy - blinding yourself to the reality and blissfully remaining ignorant as you throw away a decent decade on some jack-ass.

If this is typical behavior this paranoia, they have pills for that. However, your not really paranoid if they really are out to get you.... And in this case it looks like listening to your gut 'paid off'.

He has no right to be pissed. You are the one who should be livid. You should be screaming at him, calling him all manner of names and not cowering to his will. HE is the one that broke this realtionship. YOU are the victim.

Regardless of what you did to discover (which clearly there were good reasons to doubt here), the fact remains he is the bad person here, and he is going to do his level best to turn this around and make it look like its your fault.

Even telling your friend, seeking advice is a logical, and acceptable thing. You needed advice and turned to someone you could trust. Anyone in your shoes would do EXACTLY the same thing.

There is no fault on you.

I strongly suggest you wrap your head around who did the bad thing and accept that he is weaseling out of the responsibility.

Clearly his head and heart is not with you for for you....

[niveki]

When we're spending time together and he is constantly (CONSTANTLY) on his phone, or when you wake up at 5am and he's sitting on the edge of the bed.. on his phone.. well, he didn't make it hard for me to figure out. Paranoia was a pretty natural response. I've suggested therapy and he freaks out at the idea (which he always does - I suggested this to him for different issues in the past, unrelated to myself or us).

I really wish this would work out. You might have guessed... he's stubborn. He feels betrayed by the fact I spoke to this person, because although this friend and I have known each other for almost 3 years now and have become fairly close ourselves, this washis number one high school buddy.

You bring up good points, both of you. I guess we'll just see how it plays out. When he's ready to talk, I don't plan on taking the blame lying down.

[Unfulfilled1]

Hmmmm.

I have only three suggestions....and this is only based on what you offered in your post.

1. I take it he is from a well to do family, so he will probably not want to cut the purse strings to that....but option 1 is for both of you to cut out the problems. Move away. FAR away, and start your new lives.

2. Apparently it is ok for him to be secretive and hide things from you, but not for you to do the same, much less mention them to any friends. Once a cheater/liar, always a cheater/liar. Leave and start your own life.

3. Counseling, and lots of it. But therapy only works if BOTH parties are true and honest in all things.
As I stated previously, a cheater/liar is always a cheater/liar. Actions speak louder than words.


If these kinds of problems have been going on and the only thing that is happening is silence, lying, and cover ups....then why even bother continuing with this. It will only get worse.

Unless you WANT to live in a soap opera life.

Great response (many made great responses to this thread.)

Cheating is unacceptable, period. Especially with HIV and other diseases and general attitudes from men (gay or straight), it is easier for us to get or spread disease - even unintentionally, because a fling might not be ethical enough to say he has something - much less know he has something. Most of us should know that, regardless of age. Have ethics and respect one another.

I broke up with a guy due to #2 above - his double standards were invasive and overt and I would not stand for it. He taught me about being poly, but loathed it the moment I decided to live the lifestyle he taught. Oh, since then I have not gone back to being poly, and my current boyfriend had a worse situation (not being told upfront about his lover being poly, at least my ex was that ethical. But in any relationship being set up, one adheres to the conditions or one maturely leaves it. There is no room for shady behavior, if people truly value each other and the rest.)

#3 is absolutely correct as well, but if a person has lied and cheated, it takes a LONG time to even begin to reclaim trust. I have a one strike policy, and my lover knows I loathe cheaters. And he's told me he would never tolerate me cheating as well. We're similar in so many ways it's uncanny. But I trust him.