Full face veil

[VileKyle]

Goodbye tavi. Love ya (even if I can't take you seriously)!

[tavi]

Goodbye tavi. Love ya (even if I can't take you seriously)!

Goodbye racist, love you too :hands

[LONDONER]

This post is becoming far too confrontational. I hate to see you guys fall out. So, can we get back to my original message which was about the wearing of the veil in the NHS and in courts of law. Yes, I know that I did post widening the debate a bit but please, don't fight about it. We are on the whole, a friendly bunch here. Let's keep it that way.

[davearoo]

Anything that identifies them to any other country other than the one they are living in, yes.

As I said, if you are going to move to another country, you adopt THAT countries beliefs, holidays, and ways of life. WE are not supposed to adapt to THEM....THEY are supposed to adapt to US.
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The US government has allowed TOO many people to move over here. And they have NOT inducted them into American society by any means. They bring their other countries crap over here and force everybody else to deal with it. This in itself is OFFENSIVE beyond belief.
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Let me make sure I understand this, now:

You see a person who has chosen to express themselves by dressing in a way that reminds you of another country. This person is polite, to you and to everyone else. They are clean and well-groomed. They do nothing to indicate that others must think like they do or behave like they do.

And you still find them offensive??

[SolemnBoy]

I can't help but wonder why people are so opposed to immigrants bringing their customs with them to new countries as long as they don't break any existing laws and, in regards to Mistertinkles' post, what we're to make of Americans who convert to Islam or muslims who are born as American citizens. Why does it matter if a certain practice is unamerican as long as it's not harming anyone? If an American citizen converts to Islam, is that suddenly an unamerican and unpatriotic decision?

There are many examples of things we should not tolerate from muslims. Halal slaughter, for example, is unforgivable animal cruelty and even discussing the use of such products in schools is disgusting. As far as I'm concerned that kind of practice is incompatible with Western society and our moral obligations towards animals. It doesn't matter how fundamental it is within Islam; it can't be tolerated.

Then again, if muslims wish to pray 5 times a day, participate in muslim holidays, wear veils, gather together for religious purposes and praise their God, they're not breaking any laws or disturbing anyone. When you move to a new country you have certain obligations to adapt to new laws, but it's ridiculous to propose that you also have to abandon your identity for the sake of adapting to your new cultural norms.

Some of the things people keep bringing up in this thread such as loud and disrespectful immigrants are so completely irrelevant. If your neighbours are blasting loud music out of speakers in the middle of the night you shouldn't accept that whether they come from Iraq or America. Nobody's suggesting that immigrants ought to get away with rude things, we're just defending their rights to maintain some of their peaceful values and practices without being interrupted by bigots who fail to differentiate between threatening behaviour and cultural behaviour.

By saying that immigrants who come to the U.S have to Americanize their behaviour hints at a complete lack of knowledge as to how the nation even came to be and frankly some of the comments here scare me.

[stu]

How many men where burkas? What kind of god thinks women should cover their face? Is it ok for someone working in the nhs to wear a swastika as long as in every other respect they are a nice person? Is it ok to let someone self harm if it is their own free will?

[Lilitu]

I won't deny that many muslim women are coerced into wearing veils but I'd also like to point out that plenty of them choose to wear it. Sure, you could make the case that this will of theirs is purely based on indoctrination but nevertheless some of them even argue pretty eloquently in regards to this problem. Please listen to the words of this woman, for example:




It makes no sense to ban a certain outfit for muslim women in the name of equality, at least not to me. Of course it's despicable when women are forced to wear them but I find it equally despicable to tell a muslim woman who uses the veil as a way of expressing her religion and in some cases identity, that she cannot do so.

My favourite part was "we don't make laws based on what Mona believes"

[MisterTinkles]

Let me make sure I understand this, now:

Obviously you dont.

[VileKyle]

Obviously you dont.

It made perfect sense to me.

[davearoo]

Let me make sure I understand this, now:

You see a person who has chosen to express themselves by dressing in a way that reminds you of another country. This person is polite, to you and to everyone else. They are clean and well-groomed. They do nothing to indicate that others must think like they do or behave like they do.

And you still find them offensive??

Obviously you don't.

So you don't find such an individual offensive? Is that what you're telling me?

I'm not asking a difficult question, here.