Nordic countries lead the way?

[princealbertofb]

I know some of you agree to disagree about circumcision, but this is totally the point, brought forward by a forward thinking nation: Norway.
Here's the article from MENDOCOMPLAIN.
http://www.mendocomplain.com/2013/09/30/...en-frisch/

[Bowyn Aerrow]

Ah that won't fly in the USA. Religious rights are protected and plenty of Jewish People take the whole bris thing seriously.

[Chase]

Wait, I was circumcised. Why do so many people grieve for my penis?

[princealbertofb]

Wait, I was circumcised. Why do so many people grieve for my penis?

They don't.... Too late for your penis. They're working on improving the lives of future male babies.

[princealbertofb]

Ah that won't fly in the USA. Religious rights are protected and plenty of Jewish People take the whole bris thing seriously.

Like so many other things that don't fly in the USA, but some of them eventually fall behind, like slavery. The campaign does not say circumcision is not to happen, ever. It says if it's going to happen, it must happen when a man is grown up and capable of making an informed decision. I don't see why Jews couldn't be circumcised when they've reached such an age as that.

[Bowyn Aerrow]

Because God said otherwise.

Genesis 17:10-14

11 And ye shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of a covenant betwixt Me and you. 12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every male throughout your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any foreigner, that is not of thy seed.
(my emphasis)
Leviticus 12:3 And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised.

There is a lot of room and debate for a lot of the Laws in the bible - this one is pretty darn specific and clear.

Slavery (as per your example) was neither condemned nor actually said was the preferred economy God desired. God did appear to give a lot of laws and rules on how ones slaves are to be gotten, who could and could not be sold into slavery and even the rights and responsibilities of master to slave/slave to master.

No where does God say 'Have slaves or else you are cut off'.....

I note that that weblink you gave specified 'ritual circumcision' That appears to be directed at Jewish people and Jewish people only. If Germany were to poise such a law we wouldn't hear the end of it until every Nazi comment ever invented had been rehashed.

While it happens in Islam, few people know that and only think of 'The Jews' when its brought up.

In today's political climate I have to wonder at the sanity of the Netherlands with making such an open attack on two of the three primary religions that strikes the root of their religion.


While people may not like the idea of little boys having their foreskin snipped off, I fear its been happening for thousands of years and we already have one religious group pretty ticked off at western governments to the point where individuals fly planes into buildings.

I would hate to tick off the Jews - last I heard they had the Atomic Bomb.

[Vigilias]

As Arial Sharon once said,

The Arabs may have the oil, but we have the matches!

[MisterTinkles]

Why is this an issue??????

[Vigilias]

The circumcision thing started what, 5000 years ago? with Abraham making a covenant with God.

Is it only me who thinks these biblical prophets came down off these mountains with some pretty wacco shit - That's what happens when you get oxygen deprivation when you climb a mountain. You end up cutting bits of your body off but get to speak to your particular god who gives you a set of moral instructions carved on a stone tablet.

So where was I? Yes, this covenant, what do the Jews get out of it, what have they EVER got out of it but thousands of years of persecution wherever they tip up in the world!

I mean, where was the God of Abraham in 1942 when the Final Solution to the Jewish Question was being resolved in various places in Poland?

I think it's time time the Jews reviewed their bargain with the almighty and withheld their foreskins until such time that things start improving for them, although it could be said that they're making up for lost time by expanding the boarders of Israel more and more every day.

[Bowyn Aerrow]

I think you are confusing Abraham with Moses... Moses got the stones, Abrham had the stones to spawn a whole new nation of people - actually two when you consider Islam is actually one of Abraham's seed.

Hmm. Didn't the end of World War II lead to the creation of Israel? One of the large pressures of that was the 'guilt' so many people felt over the Jewish Solution. Lets see the modern Israel was founded May 14, 1948....

So in a way God made up for the loss by this magnificent gain.

Granted there was a lot of pressure prior to WWII, however Nazism and the Holocaust horror as bad as it was actually lead to a far swifter formation of and Israel State than had it not happened.

The 6 day war also ended on a 'greater' gain for Israel.

God works in mysterious ways - you try to top that statement especially when you look at history and see the connection that the holocaust lead to the formation of the New Israel State - which actually fullfills prophecies of the end of the Diaspora that the Jews all knew wasn't going to last forever because God made a promise - and apparently, if modern history is any indication, God kept that promise. There is an Israel in the Middle East.

Jews will admit they have gotten a 'raw deal' but they also own up to why they got that raw deal - they understand their part of not holding up bargains they made with God which lead to the thousands of years of being outcasts. They have been rewarded for their patience and keeping the covenants during the diaspora.

Israel had 'duties' to God, and each time Israel failed to uphold those duties Israel was enslaved or kicked out. It happened with Babylon - then the Romans came along and Israel was razed and the Jewish people were sent out into the world.

Christianity sees the cause as the refusal to accept Christ. Jews see it as caused by the priesthood making so many changes in the spirit of the law. Cause and effect, and you just happen to live at a time where you most likely are witness to a promise of God actually having been fulfilled - trust me, there is about 1/3rd of the world who views Israel this way - thus the reason why the USA is eyeballs deep in that political mess over there.

In this light, breaking the covenant that Abraham made is tantamount to breaking all of the other covenants that lead to the Diasporas (Both the Babylonian one and the Roman one). It is one of the fundamental, first commandments God directly gave to a Jew. This is well before the Ten Commandments, this is well before the foundation of Israel (the Land/Nation) this is the root of the nation of people who have endured through thousands of years all because they have kept this covenant with God.

The bibles (there is more than one, the Jews have their own version which the Christian OT contains most of the books thereof) pretty much lays out the cause of the Babylonian exile and outlays the underlying problems of the later Roman Era Priesthood and how Israel was turning it back on God's commandments (again).

Always understand you are dealing with faith. And faith trumps logic and rational thought.

Especially when you are dealing with a modern 'miracle' that is solid proof in the minds of the faithful that God fulfills promises. That miracle being that after 2000 years of exile, the Jews have a homeland again.