Light Bulbs to be outlawed in the USA on 1/1/14

[MisterTinkles]

QUOTE=nfisher Both CFL's and LED bulbs are significantly more complicated than the venerable incandescent bulb. So one can expect higher cost and a higher failure rate.
[COLOR="Purple"]Im sorry, but they are not. I have been in a factory where they make LED lights, and even though they may take a chip in them, or a couple more tiny, TINY wires, they do not cost much more than standard bulbs to produce. And CFL's are nothing more than a kind of miniature fluorescent bulb, which is just as cheap to produce as a standard bulb. The gas they use is super cheap and the glass they use is super cheap.
If they wanted the CFL's to be long lasting and safe, they would have made them out of composite glass instead of regular glass, which can take a beating by a hammer, and still not break.[/COLOR]

The mercury problem is sickening. The government knew damn well people weren't going to be disposing of the CFL's in the recommended manner. They're all going to be just thrown in the landfill.
Of course the government wants to force the public to buy toxic bulbs, they get to charge more healthcare for it!!

LED holds much higher promise, but the complexity is a huge drawback. Each bulb must essentially have it's own power supply if we are to continue to use screw base bulbs. This issue could be designed around quite easily, by making new fixtures specifically for LED lights that incorporate their own power supply and doing away with the screw base for those fixtures. Putting a cluster of LED's into a screw base "bulb" is really pretty dumb when the fact that you're using LED's means the little lights could be arranged in almost limitless ways. There's a whole world of design possibilities that are not even being explored because .... well who knows why? People lack creativity maybe.
[B]They dont lack creativity, they are hindered by the conglomerates. They want the cheapest crap sold at the most expensive price. Ive seen the "square" LED bulbs with 6 LED's in them, and they were pretty damn bright. So they CAN make larger LEDs, if not make one LARGE LED bulb, but that would mean changing the production format and cutting into their profits.

Generally, any time government mandates technology they fuck it up because the people making the laws don't understand the technology. Rather than understand the technology, they take the advice of "experts" who are by and large employed somewhere that stands to make a fortune. Outlawing the incandescent bulb pretty much goes against every principle of freedom and a free market economy, too.
Isnt that what I said? Conglomerates own and run the government, and the government does what their owners tell them too.

The layers of technology that are mandated by the government create a lot of other problems nobody is talking about. The more complex the machine, the less reliable it will be over time. I don't give a fuck how fuel efficient a new car is compared to an old car when the old car could stay on the road for 40-50 years reliably if well maintained, compared with a maximum realistic figure of maybe 10 years for a new car. Anyone care to guess how much energy is expended in the manufacture of a new car? Basically it kind of negates the entire energy savings of the higher efficiency newer car.
[COLOR="Blue"]Yeah, thats what I was trying to say in another thread. Take the Toyotas....pieces of shit. Made to sell. Yeah, the engines may last 50 years with no big problems, but the REST of the car is a piece of garbage. I have test driven several brand new Toyotas, and they rattle and squeak going down the roads! One of them sounded like there were springs loose and bouncing around in the dashboard. Another one sounded like it was going to crack in half everytime you hit a small bump or pothole in the road!
The new cars eat up a LOT more maintenance than the old ones did. In the old carburetor vehicles, all you really needed to do was tweak the carb, change a filter, or change a solenoid....and it was CHEAP to repair and you could do it yourself. These new vehicles you HAVE to take to a mechanic, and they are just as expensive as going to a doctor, and the parts are extremely over priced. For what it cost for ONE tune up visit on a new model car, you could run a carburetor vehicle for a year or two.[/COLOR]

[/B]

[nfisher1226]

Mostly agreed, except for the fact that the LED bulbs require and internal power supply and the CFL's require an internal ballast. So no, they're not simple devices. The fact that there's a chip means there's a lot of circuitry. That's world's different than the internals of an incandescent bulb, which is a filament made of wire.

I once was looking over a really old Dodge van and saw the windshield washer system. Basically it's got a rubber bulb on the floor and you squash it with your foot. Depending on how hard you squash it you can control how much fluid comes out. It worked flawlessly after over 40 years. So the question is, why was anything more complicated ever created? That sums up how I feel about the high efficiency bulbs, too.

For that matter, I rather enjoy candles. Even simpler.

[EvenOlderButWiser]

For that matter, I rather enjoy candles. Even simpler.

Candles may be romantic, but look at how they are made and who they are made by, not to mention the fire risk.

Give me some LED's anyday

ObW
X

[NorthLondonLad]

they are much better for the environment i think - but I dont like the way it takes them ages to get really bright

[MisterTinkles]

For that matter, I rather enjoy candles. Even simpler.

Yeah, but even candles have gotten expensive. I used to be a candle freak, I had all sorts of candles, in all shapes and sizes and scents. Pretty much had to throw them out or burn them, as they crumble with age, fade, get dust stuck to them, and get banged up with moving.

If I buy candles now, I get the ones in the glass jars from Bath and Body Works.
Damn, they smell good!!

[dfiant1]

Congratulations to the USA for once again being the leaders of the world and taking an initiative to ban the incandescent light bulb...I applaud as this time the USA is ONLY 6-7 years behind the rest of the world...bring on the conspiracy theories that they are screwing money out of us.

[dfiant1]

So no, they're not simple devices.

What are you talking about? I have upgraded my entire house to LEDs and it was a peice of piss, not to mention the light thrown is more natural and each LED is so much more energy efficient over incandescent and Flourescent...Even have LEDs over both my fish tanks and the Corals love the LEDS so if nature reacts better to LED they can't be a bad thing.

[Bowyn Aerrow]

When I retrofitted this place and brought it kicking and screaming into the 21st century, I replaced nearly every light bulb with CFL.

That was in 2001. I have only had to replace one of those lights and that is after the nephew knocked over the table lamp causing the light bulb to stop functioning.

You bought one light bulb, tried it and since it failed you have condemned a whole technology. Currently they are selling CFL 12 packs at Costco for something like $20.00. $1.6666666 each. If they last as long as most of mine have (12 years, the savings you get from the energy alone more than makes up for the initial lay out cost.

As for wattage, on those packages they have a comparison wattage - this bulb puts out as much as a 100 watt incandescent light bulb - and its actual wattage (this bulb uses 12.666 watts).


Upper right hand corner, two numbers: 14 watts (what this bulb uses) compares to a 60 watt bulb.

As for dimness - no that isn't the issue, the issue is color which you are perceiving as dimness with your old man eyes.

[MisterTinkles]

QUOTE=Bowyn Aerrow
You bought one light bulb, tried it and since it failed you have condemned a whole technology. Currently they are selling CFL 12 packs at Costco for something like $20.00. $1.6666666 each. If they last as long as most of mine have (12 years, the savings you get from the energy alone more than makes up for the initial lay out cost.
[COLOR="Purple"]If one fails, they all will fail. Im not going to spend all that money on a piece of crap that doesnt work, much less is 100% more TOXIC than a standard bulb.
What does Costco charge for thier membership? $50??? So I would have to pay a total of about $70 for a 12 pack of crappy lights? I dont think so.[/COLOR]

As for wattage, on those packages they have a comparison wattage - this bulb puts out as much as a 100 watt incandescent light bulb - and its actual wattage (this bulb uses 12.666 watts).

Upper right hand corner, two numbers: 14 watts (what this bulb uses) compares to a 60 watt bulb.
Actually I use 60 watt bulbs and I bought that CFL bulb that said it equaled 60 watts. The room was a whole LOT darker, than it was with a standard 60w bulb in the lamp.

As for dimness - no that isn't the issue, the issue is color which you are perceiving as dimness with your old man eyes.


Besides, the dollar stores here have packs of 60 watt bulbs for $1.00 each. I have 10 packs so far.
Will buy some more on my next check. I plan to have 20 total packs by Jan 1st, or more. That should last me years and years and years. I only use 5 bulbs in my whole apartment. Ive been here four years and only changed bulbs once in the bathroom. But those bulbs were here when I moved in, so I dont know how long they were here anyway.

[Bowyn Aerrow]

As to the real reason why Incandescent light-bulbs are on the way out:

https://www.google.com/#q=tungsten+shortage

We are at peak everything. Humans have been using everything up. If human civilization was to collapse today, and have to go through the Industrial Revolution again, humanity wouldn't be able to do that because the near surface, easy to reach deposits of everything is gone. We are relying on high end technologies and deep mines deep wells to get at material. While the earth has abundant resources, what is left is so deep that it requires more and more energy to get at it, the pay off with easy to reach materials is no longer there.

The dollar store is cheap shit being sold as a bargain. I have yet to find anything that is constructed there with anything meeting the minimum that passes as quality craftsmanship for this 21st century. even their fucking candles won't burn properly. Cheap is not frugal Bob.


Instead of getting a 60 watt equivalent CFL try a 100 watt equivalent in a lamp (one with a shade, or are you too cheap to afford lampshades?).

Shop online I guess: http://www.1000bulbs.com/product/86873/F...Qgod3k4Aew

About 10 dollars for 8 bulbs, which in your large mansion should meet all of your needs for lights.

Home Despot and Loews always tend to have sales on bulbs.

As for the environmental friendliness of light bulbs. There is more mercury in the fish and chips you consume (if you consume the average amount) per year than what is in a light bulb. As for energy and toxins in the process of manufacture, China produces the Tungsten, and their mining methods are less than Eco-freindly. Extracting Mercury is ironically easier and less damaging to the environment than extracting, refining tungsten.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/home/rev...ws/4217864 Reality check:

How much mercury is contained in a CFL?
Each bulb contains an average of 5 milligrams of mercury, “which is just enough to cover a ballpoint pen tip,” says Leslie, associate director of the Lighting Research Center at Rensselaer. “Though it’s nothing to laugh at, unless you wipe up mercury [without gloves] and then lick your hand, you’re probably going to be okay.”

More information: https://www.google.com/#q=how+much+mercury+is+in+a+cfl

The chances of breaking a CFL bulb are less than breaking a incandescent bulb. The glass which is formed into a tube is slightly thicker, in order to be bent around and around and twisted and what not.

Also consider what you are buying:

Is there a difference in mercury content between ENERGY STAR® and non-ENERGY STAR® CFLs?
All ENERGY STAR® qualified CFLs have less than 5 milligrams of mercury (some manufacturers are able to produce CFLs that have only about 1 milligram of mercury). Avoid purchasing non-ENERGY STAR® CFLs, as they may have much higher levels of mercury in them.

Source: http://www.dec.ny.gov/chemical/44927.html

If they are on sale at the dollar store you appear to love so much, I'm willing to bet that chances are very low they are Energy Star CFLs.

I'm also willing to bet that you bought the cheapest bulb you saw which most likely was not an Energy Star CFL.

There is a difference between cheap and frugal. A cheap person considers the initial layout costs and doesn't concern the long term costs. A frugal person is willing to expend a bit more on the initial layout costs on a thing if the long term investment pays off.

In the case of CFL Vs. Incandescent. A CFL uses about 1/4 of the electricity an incandescent uses. Depending on how expensive electricity is and how it is generated in your area (Hydro Vs Coal as example) the long term savings to both your wallet and the environment is going to be made up for by that initial expenditure.

Just understand, when I move in we ain't doing old technologies like Incandescent light bulbs, I will pull you into the 21st century kicking and screaming.