Anarchy

[Festino]

When i was younger (middle school) i leaned a lot for fascism (being from an upper middle class family with strong catolic values and generations of racism and bigotry upon me) but as the years went by i started reading about the third reich and became something of a germanophile, idealizing the strong drive for superiority that pushed the world to a sea of blood.

Around that nazi time i became aware of my homosexuality and related to guys like Ernst Röhm and found fascinating how they could be both homosexuals and violent.

After some time (starting highschool) i met love and friendship wich radically changed my points of view, i learned that it is only unloved people who are able to hate as bad as nazis and other scum of the like. Quickly i turned to see the world as a better place and became sensible to the needs of my people (look up for "poverty in chiapas" and you will know what im talking about). Mexico has always been fascinated by "first world" politics and ideologies and very few philosophers arise from this lands. There are nazis and there are stalinist and they all worship those distant figures of authority.

In highschool i started reading left wing authors but mostly Karl Marx, Lenin and soviet legislature. Soon i turned out to be a perfumed revolutionare (still upper middle class but with scorn towards my own lifestyle). The years passed and now i have left behind authoritarian thinking (hopefully forever) and been trough a fleeting romance with "socialdemocracy" the scandinavian model and all that.

A year and a half ago i joined this political movement called "Yo soy 132" (I am 132) wich had in aim to work for democracy in mexico and was composed mostly by "the educated" of my country, not much of a soviet revolution it is a pacifist movement. Alas it was not enough to march, protest, dance, sing, paint and film to stop the return of the Revolutionary institutional party (PRI, partido revolucionario institucional) to power.

PRI is the most corrupt and decadent group of men and women in our country, they hand total power in a semi monarchic manner since the age of the mexican revolution (the revolution was defeated, all revolutionary leaders were betrayed and assasined).

So in this last 6 months i have started reading authors like Mijail Bakunin and Proudhom and i have come to see that anarchy has lots of moral power behind it. You know, in an anarchic society the worker shouldnt have to maintain a gang of criminals called goverment, also anarchist have strong branches towards the LGBT people.

Unfortunately i havent met many anarchist (it is satanized in my country), so what do you think of it?

[nfisher1226]

Government is a necessary evil, but the best governments have self imposed limits so they stay largely out of people's way. Anarchy isn't really a viable choice. The strong seize power and just set themselves up as kings.

Seriously though, you're going from one extreme to another with this. Do you just enjoy extremist thinking or something?

[Festino]

Seriously though, you're going from one extreme to another with this. Do you just enjoy extremist thinking or something?

Well in my country every "moderate" person is corrupt and just out for the money, here we think that in order to change things you have to break with clasical politics, either by abolishing the state or creating a dictatorship, sadly "democracy" has never existed in México and we have been ruled by an oligarchy since the colonial days.

Government is a necessary evil, but the best governments have self imposed limits so they stay largely out of people's way. Anarchy isn't really a viable choice. The strong seize power and just set themselves up as kings.

But only if you think of a population willing to submit to kings, if every neighborhood had an assembly of free men and women no king could rule. Why should one human or a group of humans sitting in a "capital" dictate the economic and political future of millions, why should there be taxes or bureaucracy?

Think of this: When "a goverment" builds a road or a bridge they thank the governor, but it wasnt him who planned the thing, it wasnt him who moved the machinery or prepared the concrete, it was the proletariat!

[Pix]

I'm generally comfortable with the concept, especially when social institutions (anarchist in nature, of course) are promoted to deal with things like contracts and the like. But I don't think it's going to happen either, at least not on this world in the foreseeable future.

And I think values (that determines WHAT gets done be it worshiping wealth above all or community taking care of each other) is more important than ideology (that determines HOW a society safeguards its values). That is to say if your country is corrupt right now then dissolving the government isn't going to change that, people will just be corrupt in new ways still exploiting the system for their own benefit while the people who truly want a fair and just society (not to be confused with "unfair in my favor" as all too many do) remain just as rare as they are right now which means it will still be ugly.

I've met some inspiring anarchists I admire and also some that make me cringe just thinking about them.

As for you personally I'm wondering why you seem so drawn to fringe politics. Not a criticism, mind you, just curiosity. And I don't expect you to know why yourself as so few understand what shapes them.

[MisterTinkles]

After some time (starting highschool) i met love and friendship wich radically changed my points of view, i learned that it is only unloved people who are able to hate as bad as nazis and other scum of the like.

This is not only BULLSHIT, I find it highly OFFENSIVE!!!!

Who the hell do you think YOU are making judgments on people who dont have boyfriends, girlfriends, or family???

I have seen PLENTY of "loved" people who are vile, disgusting, evil beyond compare, and totally worthless pieces of human garbage!!!!

[Geminize]

if every neighborhood had an assembly of free men and women no king could rule. Why should one human or a group of humans sitting in a "capital" dictate the economic and political future of millions, why should there be taxes or bureaucracy?

Think of this: When "a goverment" builds a road or a bridge they thank the governor, but it wasnt him who planned the thing, it wasnt him who moved the machinery or prepared the concrete, it was the proletariat!

Nonsense. I mean no offense, but if you don't like things the way they are now, try anarchy for something worse. I know politics in Mexico are deeply corrupt. I have no idea what it will take to change that. I understand your idealism, but as appealing as anarchy may seem I think you would not enjoy the experience.

If you want roads, bridges, ports, schools, hospitals, etc, you need more than "neighborhood assemblies" to make this happen. With large populations, a central government is potentially much more effective and efficient. Of course, centralizing resources and power opens many opportunities for abuse. Once that becomes part of a culture it is very hard to change -- but not impossible.

[Ekwarph]

This is not only BULLSHIT, I find it highly OFFENSIVE!!!!

Who the hell do you think YOU are making judgments on people who dont have boyfriends, girlfriends, or family???

I have seen PLENTY of "loved" people who are vile, disgusting, evil beyond compare, and totally worthless pieces of human garbage!!!!

True. hatred is just something which can be transmitted with a good-speaker guy. Far right parties are successful in crisis when you have to find a guilty. Nothing about personnal relationships of one guy...

Nonsense. I mean no offense, but if you don't like things the way they are now, try anarchy for something worse. I know politics in Mexico are deeply corrupt. I have no idea what it will take to change that. I understand your idealism, but as appealing as anarchy may seem I think you would not enjoy the experience.

If you want roads, bridges, ports, schools, hospitals, etc, you need more than "neighborhood assemblies" to make this happen. With large populations, a central government is potentially much more effective and efficient. Of course, centralizing resources and power opens many opportunities for abuse. Once that becomes part of a culture it is very hard to change -- but not impossible.

Anarchy would theoretically work for countries of less than 100 inhabitants I guess, no? :biggrin:

[Lilitu]

This is not only BULLSHIT, I find it highly OFFENSIVE!!!!

Who the hell do you think YOU are making judgments on people who dont have boyfriends, girlfriends, or family???

I have seen PLENTY of "loved" people who are vile, disgusting, evil beyond compare, and totally worthless pieces of human garbage!!!!

Lol i didn't even see that the first time I read it, but now it does looks horribly offensive xD
oops


On anarchy though: it's human nature to care for yourself and those who are close to you. Everyone hates to admit it but nobody truly cares about people whom you've never met or talked to or seen.

That's why the professional world is based on having 'connections', and why specific groups of people (ethnicities in particular) have lower incomes and worse socio-economic situations. That's why nepotism is a thing, and that's why ads for human charities usually will focus on building a fleeting empathic connection between the viewer and a named person.

How I see it, anarchy in the modern world would have to rely on every single human being caring equally for every other single human being, which we can't do no matter how hard we try.

There are just too many people in the world. I hate them all.

[Genersis]

I don't get along with anarchy.
If any, I would rather Communist Anarchy; as it would be most beneficial to the most disadvantaged in society.

Regardless, I think it's an unrealistic idea. (and Communism out-and-out Utopian)
Humans are social creatures, we will form larger collective groups, I see government as an extension of this, to help the disadvantaged, to punish and rehabilitate those who are problematic to society, to form militaries to protect their land and people, ETC.

[southbiochem]

Carajo, hombre....te me vas de un extremo a otro...nunca vas a obtener algo bueno, ni con una cosa ni con otra..

Allow me to tell you one thing. México, dear México, as my own Chilito querido...is not the Soviet Union, nor the United States, nor freaking Scandinavia..

People in Latin American countries should really stop this view of copy/paste foreign models when quite in fact our realities are different from those in Europe or the Anglo-Saxon world....

take for example the fact that Latin America spends way more of its GDP than the normal in the rest of the world when it comes to Armed Forces, and those Armed Forces often need to focus more on internal issues, rather than foreign threats..in México this is particularly relevant against drug cartels, as in Colombia...this doesn't happen is those northerner countries.....

social reality is different..the threat and influcence of Catholic church is still prevalent, not from the Church itself, since that bliss of Church-State Separation, but from Catholic parties, opus dei freaks in politics and wealthy Catholic families who own companies...so to try and copy foreign models from more "advanced" countries with different socio-economic and demographic background will not solve things..

you can try to take them as models but never as the source of solution for troubles...

we are a bit behind...it's true..but getting up to pair with the rest of the world will depend on the government's view on how to adress the particular reality of its country rather than to look outwards..

South America, at least, saw during 2005-2010 social-democrat governments in place and were good enough to not give up economic growth while at least implementing social and education programs...it can be done...

I can see that as far better than the extremism era: taking my land as an example...Chile saw a communist being elected in 1970...the overall results where hyperinflation and growing unrest within all the political class, riots, strikes and lack of supplies...up until the whole government was paralized..

the alternative: well, the Army, the Navy and the Air Force took over by force, which marked the beggining of 17 years of the other extreme, a fascist murderer in power..albeit, one that made the country recover at the same time he was killing thousands...

so, you see...both models, both from foreign countries, did nothing but divide the country, get people killed or starved to death...

toma este espíritu de cambio que guardas para tu país, pero sutráele el extremismo...tu sí puedes hacer un cambio para mejor..mile: