Anarchy

[Festino]

This is not only BULLSHIT, I find it highly OFFENSIVE!!!!

Who the hell do you think YOU are making judgments on people who dont have boyfriends, girlfriends, or family???

I have seen PLENTY of "loved" people who are vile, disgusting, evil beyond compare, and totally worthless pieces of human garbage!!!!

And that isnt judgemental?

First of that WAS my point of view in highschool and i am entitled to my own point of view anyways. That being said i now know that psycopaths or "evil" people come in all shapes and sizes and act for many different reasons. I apologize if someone felt acused of being a nazi for not having love in their lives

[Festino]

..


Anarchy would theoretically work for countries of less than 100 inhabitants I guess, no? :biggrin:

In the Tao Te King Lao Tse said something like "The world would be at peace if all kingdoms were small enough that they could hear the neighboring kingdom dogs bark at night"

So yeah, i wouldnt expect an anarchist society to englobe what we consider "nations" all in one, anarchism has to be micromanaged by the people living in those areas.

[Bowyn Aerrow]

Anarchy only works with a group 1000 or less. Even with 1000 people there are cliches and subgroups that rise up making it a lot of hard work to not instill hierarchies/ruling class, etc.

Humans can only seriously bond on a level with a handful of people, a tribe of 30-50 is about the largest size a person can bond with significantly enough to allow ruleless law to actually work. Over that humans start isolating numbers, breaking up into smaller groups.

Government in the modern world is chiefly designed to keep 1000+ people together and working toward common goals. Kingdoms, nationalism is an artificial extension of the tribe.

Humans for the most part are too stupid for real self governance. Allegiances, and a need to follow a strong leader to get things done (due to how we evolved to be social and work in tribes) leads to most individuals not being self motivated enough to 'do something'.

Take the woman running down the street in the middle of the night screaming 'help!' - few people respond, thinking its someone else's problem.

It would be this way with every thing if we relied on anarchy, nothing would get done because everyone else is waiting for someone else to 'do something'.

[Festino]

Anarchy happens every day, search for a community in mexico called "cheran" in the state of michoacan.
It is a farming community that fought the drug lords and expelled the federal police and the army, and also all political parties, they live not in chaos but choosing an asembly of people to think what to do for public works, might sound like a goverment except they dont get paid, they are only spokesmen of smaller asemblies nor are they all mighty and can be demoted any time. cheran is populated by 20,000 people btw
Another example of functional anarchy was anarchist spain (cataluña) they managed to be productive and to live in harmony (even tought they lost the war thanks to mussolini and hitlers help to Franco)

I believe selfishness was accepted socially since the age of slavery and it just grew more and more to this capitalist era. Private property of the means of production should be abolished (note im not talking about individual property, the fruit of one own work).

Education is key for anarchy, as long as we maintain a society in wich money is more important than human life or nature we will see wars and destruction. I would suggest reading Paulo Freire, brazilian pedagoge in his book "pedagogy of the oppressed" there he explains how educators can teach other to think, to find their own words, criticize society and fight for change

[Pix]

Another example of functional anarchy was anarchist spain (cataluña) they managed to be productive and to live in harmony (even tought they lost the war thanks to mussolini and hitlers help to Franco)

Another bit is that even the anarchist militias had no ranks and they repeatedly fended off both the Fascists AND the Communists (which were the biggest armies, the anarchists being the smallest and with the fewest weapons in part because the Communists & Fascists both had such support from various countries, corporations, and churches from around the world while the anarchists did not). To take Barcelona the Communists & Fascists had to form a temporary alliance and even then they softened up the anarchists by shelling the city from the distance. IIRC (being over a decade since I read the history), one of the reasons the Fascists won over the Communists was because the Communist army destroyed many of their own munitions that would've otherwise fallen into the hands of the anarchist militias attacking them at the time and the justification given to the Soviets was something along the lines of "if the anarchists seize these weapons they win the war."

I always thought it was a shame the Spanish Anarchists didn't get to carry out a long term political experiment rather than just a short one. They did prove anarchist organization could work in an urban area with a lot of people and they had a lot of volunteers. OTOH, it's amazing how well people can work together when your immediate survival demands it as was the case in the Spanish Civil War. I've always wondered, had the Anarchists prevailed, could they keep functioning so well once their immediate survival no longer depended on cooperation? (I honestly don't know.)

I love the writings of Emma Goldman, btw (she was with Mujeres Libres of the Spanish Anarchists). I don't agree with everything she said but she could explain her ideas so well and it's even more impressive she said those things back in the day she did (and where she faced brutal persecution for it at times), she was well ahead of her time...in some ways she's still ahead of even our times.

[dfiant1]

baked bean cans have labels...shirts have labels, heck even the chair you sit on has a label...it tells you the brand and gives your manufacture and care instructions.

Life doesn't have labels because no one needs to know how to care for it because you have to live it first. Life doesn't need labels because labels are like handcuffs and will restrict you to one little box and those that spend too much time analysing these life 'labels' in my opinion don't have very much between the ears...and there is proof of that right here in this discussion

[Festino]

Carajo, hombre....te me vas de un extremo a otro...nunca vas a obtener algo bueno, ni con una cosa ni con otra..

Allow me to tell you one thing. México, dear México, as my own Chilito querido...is not the Soviet Union, nor the United States, nor freaking Scandinavia..

People in Latin American countries should really stop this view of copy/paste foreign models when quite in fact our realities are different from those in Europe or the Anglo-Saxon world....

take for example the fact that Latin America spends way more of its GDP than the normal in the rest of the world when it comes to Armed Forces, and those Armed Forces often need to focus more on internal issues, rather than foreign threats..in México this is particularly relevant against drug cartels, as in Colombia...this doesn't happen is those northerner countries.....

social reality is different..the threat and influcence of Catholic church is still prevalent, not from the Church itself, since that bliss of Church-State Separation, but from Catholic parties, opus dei freaks in politics and wealthy Catholic families who own companies...so to try and copy foreign models from more "advanced" countries with different socio-economic and demographic background will not solve things..

you can try to take them as models but never as the source of solution for troubles...

we are a bit behind...it's true..but getting up to pair with the rest of the world will depend on the government's view on how to adress the particular reality of its country rather than to look outwards..

South America, at least, saw during 2005-2010 social-democrat governments in place and were good enough to not give up economic growth while at least implementing social and education programs...it can be done...

I can see that as far better than the extremism era: taking my land as an example...Chile saw a communist being elected in 1970...the overall results where hyperinflation and growing unrest within all the political class, riots, strikes and lack of supplies...up until the whole government was paralized..

the alternative: well, the Army, the Navy and the Air Force took over by force, which marked the beggining of 17 years of the other extreme, a fascist murderer in power..albeit, one that made the country recover at the same time he was killing thousands...

so, you see...both models, both from foreign countries, did nothing but divide the country, get people killed or starved to death...

toma este espíritu de cambio que guardas para tu país, pero sutráele el extremismo...tu sí puedes hacer un cambio para mejor..mile:

xD tranquilo camarada todos nos estamos buscándonos a nosotros mismos

Anarchy sure sounds radical but thats the point of life, the radicals question everything and therefore cant be controled, it is the oposite of a dogmatic person. When people asks you not to question the stablished order of things it usually goes with not questioning their profit. Chile has 16 million people, Mexico has 111 million, sure it isnt the biggest country in the world, or the continent, but comparing sizes and population we are the most backwards in the continent. Our "democracy" is neoliberal capitalism.

Our own army slaughters us, our goverments kidnap us and torture us, we are in a dictatorship like the one of Pinochet, and the "oposition" parties are just playing along. People die in the streets and in the mountains, we have tuberculosis and dengue outbreaks, hell we even had a cholera outbreak this year. Anarchy, reached trough education, understanding, self organization and self management could be the solution for this country and every other country.

Nowdays nothing stops a crazy man from going out to the street and start shooting people, not all armies in the world and police forces can do that, in the end shit like that will happend, so why support millions of soldiers that are ultimately used to protect the private property of the elite?

[southbiochem]

xD tranquilo camarada todos nos estamos buscándonos a nosotros mismos

Anarchy sure sounds radical but thats the point of life, the radicals question everything and therefore cant be controled, it is the oposite of a dogmatic person. When people asks you not to question the stablished order of things it usually goes with not questioning their profit. Chile has 16 million people, Mexico has 111 million, sure it isnt the biggest country in the world, or the continent, but comparing sizes and population we are the most backwards in the continent. Our "democracy" is neoliberal capitalism.

Our own army slaughters us, our goverments kidnap us and torture us, we are in a dictatorship like the one of Pinochet, and the "oposition" parties are just playing along. People die in the streets and in the mountains, we have tuberculosis and dengue outbreaks, hell we even had a cholera outbreak this year. Anarchy, reached trough education, understanding, self organization and self management could be the solution for this country and every other country.

Nowdays nothing stops a crazy man from going out to the street and start shooting people, not all armies in the world and police forces can do that, in the end shit like that will happend, so why support millions of soldiers that are ultimately used to protect the private property of the elite?

Why did you kill a million of us? :eek:...we are 17 million souls here..:biggrin:

No se trata de no cuestionar or no forzar cambios, pero la radicalización nunca ha tenido buenos resultados, a menos que prefieras irte al estilo Francés, go all the way y decapitar al presidente..y a la élite política, y al ejército...y a ver entonces qué queda en pie....porque como siempre, el pueblo es el que paga las consecuencias.

Se podría decir que vives en un Estado Policial por allí en México, o algo parecido...muy al estilo de la Rusia Imperial antes de la Primera Guerra Mundial....y bien, jodida como era la sociedad de entonces, una vez desaparecida la Autoridad Imperial toda la estructura social se vino abajo...cómo será que niños sin padres iban por las calles vagando....y quienes llevaron a cabo la revolución (Y, ¡ojo! la anarquía no trajo la revolución, fue controlada desde el centro y desde arriba, por un puñado de gente) pronto tuvieron que institucionalizar el terror a manera de controlar la violencia que surgió de una sociedad que se desbarataba..

Sure, México is in dire need of change, but your way has severe consequences for the people..it might just be a remedy that's worse than the disease..

And don't get rid of the Army just yet...who else has the power to control the drug cartels up north? Granted, corruption is spreading fast with the tempation of the wealth that comes from drug trafficking...still...if you think about any successful change you need the Armed Forces friendly towards your cause, just saying..

[Festino]

I may have not explained myself, its not about taking over a whole country, its about communities organizing and self managing, anarchy couldnt be force upon anyone, its about peace and resisting any attempt of coercion. The opressed man isnt a lost article that can be reclaimed, he is an individual that must auto configurate responsably into freedom

[MisterTinkles]

baked bean cans have labels...shirts have labels, heck even the chair you sit on has a label...it tells you the brand and gives your manufacture and care instructions.

Life doesn't have labels because no one needs to know how to care for it because you have to live it first. Life doesn't need labels because labels are like handcuffs and will restrict you to one little box and those that spend too much time analysing these life 'labels' in my opinion don't have very much between the ears...and there is proof of that right here in this discussion