The motivations behind the political views of almost every teenager I've ever spoken to frighten me. It seems like most of them either absorb the opinions of their parents or choose a political party based on minimal, often flawed research.
I'll be voting for the first time this year and for the past weeks I've been struggling to read up on the political parties. Most of my results so far have made me almost terrified of the political climate over here and I can't really say I'd feel comfortable voting for ANY of the political parties. My conclusions tend to be highly negative; too xenophobic, too naive, too pro-NATO, too restrictive of individual freedom etc.
The rise of racism in Sweden disturbs me greatly but the political correctness and refusal to properly and calmly debate topics like immigration repulses me. Our debates tend to follow the exact same formula of ridicule and nonsense. Political statements either place too great an emphasis on attacking political opponents or to disclose information as vaguely and indirectly as possible. One of the highest ranked politicians in the country linked a satirical article along the lines of The Onion which told the story of how 37 people had died of a marijuana overdose ever since its legalization in Colorado as a part of her anti-drug argument. The ignorance of some of our top politicians scares me.
At the moment I feel like I'm gonna have to vote blank. People I've spoken to, whether politically interested or not all agree that a blank vote is stupid; that it's a sign of political apathy and that it's despicable when people choose not to make a choice in what they believe in. But I don't believe in any of the parties and I'm not comfortable picking what I perceive to be a lesser evil but an evil nonetheless. How do you feel about this? Have you ever voted blank? Do you think it's a political statement of value in and of itself or is it apathetic and not to be recommended?
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It depends greatly on how the vote is made...
in your case, with the responsible and thorough way you have informed yourself, voting blank is as much as a political statment as voting for a person..
in the case of going to vote and not even knowing who your choices are, then voting blank falls into apathy..
Im my case, the last presidential election here, I voted null (marking every single candidate, as we do it on paper here) and this is preferable than voting blank cause the binominal system we have going on stipulated once at least, or it left a precedent that blank votes can go to the candidate with the most votes but not the absolut majority demanded by Chilean legislation to be elected...
As you, I have seen how my classmates, people my age and various other people in my age range are singing the same songs as their parents, which in the case of Chile, is reduced to worshiping a communist that got elected who promised equality, but sent the country rapidly into hyperinflation, or worshiping the general that overthrew him, which managed to stabilize the country, you know, when he wasn't busy killing thousands.
The one thing I appreciate the most about my parents is that they raised me to be conscious about the political reality but without politicizing into either extreme and into no particular view..
As you, I find it that I can't vote for the lesser of 2 evils..
right wingers here have something very nasty about them: they are very much Catholic elitists....they have in their programs all the bad about the church (anti-LGBT, anti-abortion in cases of rape, or therapeutical abortion, they campaign greatly to make sure condoms are seldom available, etc) and none of the good of the church (they don't care about social welfare not fighting wealth inequality)
left wingers have all the social programs, but they have come to be very corrupted and prone to embezzlement when they are in a position of power...
so, in my case, and I think your is similar, I see it only responsible to vote blank
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I just think with the rise in right partys and the ongoing unchecked immigration is not going to lead anywhere good in europe. Sometimes i watch political debate shows, always interesting, with member of bnp or ukip. nothing ever gets agreed, there will be some outraged liberal who gets cheered the most even if there simple and repeat everything.
while i believe some people are genuinely left-minded, i also think for others, its just there automatic stance because as southbio mentioned right people are thought of as nasty. Not everyone thinks a great deal past there own lives except wanting to be liked.
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partis Wrote:I just think with the rise in right partys and the ongoing unchecked immigration is not going to lead anywhere good in europe. Sometimes i watch political debate shows, always interesting, with member of bnp or ukip. nothing ever gets agreed, there will be some outraged liberal who gets cheered the most even if there simple and repeat everything.
while i believe some people are genuinely left-minded, i also think for others, its just there automatic stance because as southbio mentioned right people are thought of as nasty. Not everyone thinks a great deal past there own lives except wanting to be liked.
I don't see what this has got to do with blank voting although I guess it sort of relates to the bad political climate I suggested.
I know from our past conversations that you and I have very different opinions in terms of immigration, but there's no need to discuss that.
I will admit, however, that politicians in Europe sometimes tend to strive for political correctness and sometimes refuse to even debate topics related to immigration as adults. Although I oppose the xenophobic political party that has entered the parliament in my country, I feel ashamed when I see the way other parties treat its members. They constantly ridicule and attack the members to score political points and many times fail to grant them the rights that should be fundamental in any debate; the chance to speak without interruption for example. The way an increasing amount of subjects is becoming taboo is downright disturbing and people with good intentions constantly fight with anti-democratic methods without realizing it.
I remember an incident that happened a few years ago. This extremely right-wing political party full of nazi sympathizers had arranged a peaceful demonstration in accordance to our laws. On my way to school I was stopped by a group of politically active students who literally told me: "these people hold anti-democratic views so our plan is to stop them from voicing their opinions by blocking their demonstration". It makes me sad to live in a country where political correctness has reached an insane peak where people with controversial opinions no longer can voice them.
It's not like I enjoy the sight of nazi sympathizers publically speaking to an audience. In fact it makes me extremely uncomfortable. On the other hand it's obvious that they have an equal right to speak as long as no laws are being broken.
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HumbleTangerine Wrote:The motivations behind the political views of almost every teenager I've ever spoken to frighten me. It seems like most of them either absorb the opinions of their parents or choose a political party based on minimal, often flawed research.
In my observation that's true of a great many people no matter their age. And teens can be well informed, I've seen more than one win against professional debaters on CNN.
HumbleTangerine Wrote:I'll be voting for the first time this year
Everything you've noticed...get used to it because it's normal. I know it's disillusioning but the idea of the "informed, enlightened electorate" is as much a fantasy as "happily ever after" love stories (not to say it can never happen but such will be the exception to the rule and generally speaking you're just going to have to accept the thorns on the roses).
HumbleTangerine Wrote:The rise of racism in Sweden disturbs me greatly but the political correctness and refusal to properly and calmly debate topics like immigration repulses me. Our debates tend to follow the exact same formula of ridicule and nonsense. Political statements either place too great an emphasis on attacking political opponents or to disclose information as vaguely and indirectly as possible.
I had a friend who worked for the Democratic Party in CA (maybe she still does, I know she was on it in the 2008 election) and she was against giving amnesty to illegal aliens. Thing was she gave coherent reasons aligned with the political rhetoric of liberal Democrats such as hiring illegals undermined unions and laws meant to protect the workers while exploiting a poor class (and saying the illegals get paid more than they would otherwise is a slippery slope to saying people are better off in abusive sweatshops rather than starving on the streets) and furthermore these illegals should fix their own country rather than messing up the solutions of this country (and that they should be supported by our government for doing so). Furthermore, she emphasized she was against ILLEGAL immigration AND that it should be made easier to immigrate legally as legal immigrants were not the problem. And yet she was dismissed by Democrats she worked with for over 10 years as racist without any actual thought given to her reasons.
HumbleTangerine Wrote:One of the highest ranked politicians in the country linked a satirical article along the lines of The Onion which told the story of how 37 people had died of a marijuana overdose ever since its legalization in Colorado as a part of her anti-drug argument. The ignorance of some of our top politicians scares me.
Keep in mind that not all politicians are as stupid as they pretend...rather, they're cynically exploiting the valuable "stupid (ie, uninformed beyond emotionally visceral bumper sticker slogans) vote" (as it's the majority). Also, as the song Popular goes:
When I see depressing creatures
With unprepossessing features
I remind them on their own behalf
To think of
Celebrated heads of state or
Specially great communicators
Did they have brains or knowledge?
Don't make me laugh!He,he!
They were popular! Please -
It's all about popular!
It's not about aptitude
It's the way you're viewed
So it's very shrewd to be
Very very popular
Like me!
HumbleTangerine Wrote:At the moment I feel like I'm gonna have to vote blank. People I've spoken to, whether politically interested or not all agree that a blank vote is stupid; that it's a sign of political apathy and that it's despicable when people choose not to make a choice in what they believe in. But I don't believe in any of the parties and I'm not comfortable picking what I perceive to be a lesser evil but an evil nonetheless. How do you feel about this? Have you ever voted blank? Do you think it's a political statement of value in and of itself or is it apathetic and not to be recommended?
You have to live with the choices (though keep in mind your vote is practically insignificant anyway unless you're part of a bloc, and at least in the US plenty of "None of the Above" or even "third party" votes were found in 2000 to be thrown away by some counting them once as "joke ballots") so do what you can. In either case, if voting or refusing to vote could change the system then they'd be outlawed (come to think of it countries are much more likely to make voting compulsory rather than do away with them, including Soviet Russia). I can understand refusing to choose whether your left arm or right arm is to be broken though I also think it's naive to think your casting a blank vote is going to somehow make the system work as promoted in the brochures, too.
I will throw in that I much prefer people who choose not to vote as they recognize they're not informed enough or that the system is too broken to those who vote as they're ordered to (and blatantly lied to which they could easily find out if they bothered) and are incapable of critical thought and/or of answering even basic questions (such as those clearly explained in our voters manuals). It's like having children, most anyone can do it but many shouldn't, and certainly shouldn't be praised for doing so when they do it all wrong and/or for the wrong reasons (including "because I'm supposed to").
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Pix Wrote:In my observation that's true of a great many people no matter their age. And teens can be well informed, I've seen more than one win against professional debaters on CNN.
Everything you've noticed...get used to it because it's normal. I know it's disillusioning but the idea of the "informed, enlightened electorate" is as much a fantasy as "happily ever after" love stories (not to say it can never happen but such will be the exception to the rule and generally speaking you're just going to have to accept the thorns on the roses).
I had a friend who worked for the Democratic Party in CA (maybe she still does, I know she was on it in the 2008 election) and she was against giving amnesty to illegal aliens. Thing was she gave coherent reasons aligned with the political rhetoric of liberal Democrats such as hiring illegals undermined unions and laws meant to protect the workers while exploiting a poor class (and saying the illegals get paid more than they would otherwise is a slippery slope to saying people are better off in abusive sweatshops rather than starving on the streets) and furthermore these illegals should fix their own country rather than messing up the solutions of this country (and that they should be supported by our government for doing so). Furthermore, she emphasized she was against ILLEGAL immigration AND that it should be made easier to immigrate legally as legal immigrants were not the problem. And yet she was dismissed by Democrats she worked with for over 10 years as racist without any actual thought given to her reasons.
Keep in mind that not all politicians are as stupid as they pretend...rather, they're cynically exploiting the valuable "stupid (ie, uninformed beyond emotionally visceral bumper sticker slogans) vote" (as it's the majority). Also, as the song Popular goes:
When I see depressing creatures
With unprepossessing features
I remind them on their own behalf
To think of
Celebrated heads of state or
Specially great communicators
Did they have brains or knowledge?
Don't make me laugh!He,he!
They were popular! Please -
It's all about popular!
It's not about aptitude
It's the way you're viewed
So it's very shrewd to be
Very very popular
Like me!
You have to live with the choices (though keep in mind your vote is practically insignificant anyway unless you're part of a bloc, and at least in the US plenty of "None of the Above" or even "third party" votes were found in 2000 to be thrown away by some counting them once as "joke ballots") so do what you can. In either case, if voting or refusing to vote could change the system then they'd be outlawed (come to think of it countries are much more likely to make voting compulsory rather than do away with them, including Soviet Russia). I can understand refusing to choose whether your left arm or right arm is to be broken though I also think it's naive to think your casting a blank vote is going to somehow make the system work as promoted in the brochures, too.
I will throw in that I much prefer people who can't think critically or bother to stay informed (as opposed to blatantly lied to, easily known if they bothered to check, by their party) to choose not to vote than I am by the people who vote as they're ordered to and are incapable of critical thought and/or of answering even basic questions (such as those clearly explained in our voters manuals). It's like having children, most anyone can do it but many shouldn't, and certainly shouldn't be praised for doing so when they do it all wrong and/or for the wrong reasons (including "because I'm supposed to").
You make several good points although I highly doubt anyone would base an argument on a satirical article to play themselves off as stupid. It caused somewhat of an outrage and the person in question had to make a public statement saying that her remark was in fact a lamentation over the fact that a matter as serious as drug use is being satirized. It's obviously a lie, however, as her original comment contains NO such message neither directly nor implied.
Politicians over here are obviously terrified of being labeled racist, which has become surprisingly easy. If you question the current immigration laws that basically becomes your label, which is a shame.
Also, I'm obviously a bit naive when it comes to politics as some of my outrage probably suggests. I'm not as naive, however, to think that my vote ultimately matters. For me it's more of a principle. I dislike political apathy or the reluctance to educate yourself in the slightest on what is going on in your country and what the options are. Obviously political awareness isn't something you can or should oppose but I personally believe it's a foundation for democracy to be as effective as possible. For me it's important that my decision isn't meaningless even if the odds of it being objectively significant in the final outcome are astronomical.
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Just for fun I thought I'd share this (which I found insightful on how elections actually work) in a satiric retelling of classic fairy tales "in political correct terms" here:
And the reaction was tremendous! Breathless articles and news reports began to appear about the reluctant candidate. Who was he? What did he stand for? What was the significance of the public groundswell that surrounded this strapping figure of youthful vitality? With just the slightest spin doctoring and some wise use of media time, Puss in Boots proceeded to forge the image of his human companion as a man forced into public life by the will of the people, who were disillusioned and were looking for a white knight (colorist though such concepts are) on a tall fiery charger (ditto heightist and speciesist, not to mention quite Eurocentic overall).
Within a few weeks and without uttering a word, the young man with the Redfordesque good looks won the party nomination for the Senate!
"Wow! I can't believe it," said the malleable candidate. "I guess I'd better start figuring out my positions on the issues."
"You do and I'll break your neck," hissed the cat. "Let me worry about your positions, as well as your beliefs and your off-the-cuff remarks and your spontaneity and everything else. You just remember: Don't say a thing unless I tell you to."
Now Puss in Boots began to work in earnest to get his meal ticket elected to the Senate. He issued position papers that were totally pointless yet exquisitely quotable. He had the candidate photographed shaking hands with factory workers, reitirees, and customers at luncheonettes. They challenged the incumbent to debate and then backed out at the last minute, declaring such an event would be just an exercise in "politics as usual." Their optimistically simple campaign slogan--"It's Time for a Change!"--seemed to strike a chord with the optimistically simple voters.
Throughout the frenzy of the campaign, no one noticed or commented on Puss in Boot's lack of credentials. In fact, seduced by his easy and apparently candid manner, no one ever noticed that he was of feline descent at all. It just demonstrated the commentator's observation, "In the land of the optically challenged, the monocularly gifted individual is first in line at the trough."
Election day drew near, with all the mudslinging and innuendo you could imagine. Puss in Boot's candidate, however, with his easy confidence and glint in the eye, seemed somehow to rise above the fray. This might have been due to the fact that he was still forbidden to speak his mind (or what there was of it) in any way, shape, or form. Puss in Boots, OTOH, was always available to the media and ready with a charming, folksy anecdote or some evidence that their opponent had undergone electroshock therapy to stop the temporary lapse into dementia that made him want to release all the criminals from prison with a $50 gift certificate and an automatic pistol.
<snip>
As usual, emotion rather than reason carried the day, and as the ballots were counted on election day, Puss in Boots and his ruddy, exuberant human companion had won by a comfortable margin.
At the victory party, Puss pulled the new senator aside and said to him, "You see? I told you I could be useful to you. You may not have the wealth of your brothers yet, but you soon will have, and even more clout, if you play your cards right. There is even some talk--initiated by me, of course--that you're going to run for president in the next election because the country's problems are too urgent and your ideas are too big to be penned up in the senate. What do you think of that?"
"Oh, my skillful, cunning cat," he said. "I can't thank you enough. Please accept my apologies for ever contemplating selling you to perfume researchers."
"Just do as I say," said Puss in Boots, taking a sip of his designer water, "and instead of the stealth candidate, they'll be calling you...Mr. President. Now, you better get up there and give them the victory speech I wrote for you."
--from Once Upon a More Enlightened Time by James Finn Garner
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I guess you should vote for the party you dislike least. No i dont think not voting is a political statement of value.
Have you read the series of open letters between comedians russel brand and robert webb, this thread reminds me of it.
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I'm voting first time this year too, and the same problem exists here, as it does everywhere.
The problem is: voting blank won't be a statement. Voting blank will be nothing. You'll be turned to a statistic that ultimately people will take to mean that youth are at blame for their own indecisive apathy.
Vote for something. Vote for the least evil one. Its all you can do in the circumstancsa
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I dont know about Sweden, but here in the USA, when we vote.....there is a "write in" section on the ballot.
This means you can write in any name you want to vote for. Whether it be a movie star, Miss Piggy, Aunt Jemima, or yourself.
I have voted for Miss Piggy on a couple of elections, and the last election I voted for Roseanne (famous TV actress over here).
Why do people do this? It shows the government that there are people who are not worthy of a real vote. That there is nobody worthy of the position that they are all bidding for.
I think it was when Ronald Reagan was running for second term, that the news media reported that Micky Mouse had gotten a lot of votes for President that year. Which tells you how people felt about those who were running for the office.
If you want to show your distaste for those who are running for office, write in your own vote, if you have that option.
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