America, sometimes I despair of thee.

[nfisher1226]

I also have a really strong dislike for assholes who say love it or leave it. I usually ask them to get the fuck out of MY country. I do love my country. I love my country also for the principle that we're supposed to tolerate free speech and free press, including unpopular opinions and criticism of our government. That is also enshrined in the Bill of Rights, so for you to tell someone to love it or leave it is not only a dick move it's FUCKING UNAMERICAN.

[Arkansota]

I also have a really strong dislike for assholes who say love it or leave it. I usually ask them to get the fuck out of MY country. I do love my country. I love my country also for the principle that we're supposed to tolerate free speech and free press, including unpopular opinions and criticism of our government. That is also enshrined in the Bill of Rights, so for you to tell someone to love it or leave it is not only a dick move it FUCKING UNAMERICAN.

Again, it's a request, not a legally binding demand.

[dfiant1]

I also have a really strong dislike for assholes who say love it or leave it. I usually ask them to get the fuck out of MY country. I do love my country. I love my country also for the principle that we're supposed to tolerate free speech and free press, including unpopular opinions and criticism of our government. That is also enshrined in the Bill of Rights, so for you to tell someone to love it or leave it is not only a dick move it's FUCKING UNAMERICAN.

not just unamerican, it is inhumane.

[nfisher1226]

OK Arkansota, I have been very harsh here. I want you to know I'm not just trying to pick on you like some others are. I want you to know that my response is due to my buttons being pushed. You pushed my buttons by spouting right wing rhetoric that serves no purpose in a real debate. You are better than the extremist viewpoints you're parroting. You are young, and I desperately want you and the rest of your generation to think for yourselves and not just parrot back this utter crap that the media wants to spoon feed you. Love it or leave it is jingoism at it's worst. You're not going to be taken seriously using that sort of crap around intelligent people.

[Arkansota]

OK Arkansota, I have been very harsh here. I want you to know I'm not just trying to pick on you like some others are. I want you to know that my response is due to my buttons being pushed. You pushed my buttons by spouting right wing rhetoric that serves no purpose in a real debate. You are better than the extremist viewpoints you're parroting. You are young, and I desperately want you and the rest of your generation to think for yourselves and not just parrot back this utter crap that the media wants to spoon feed you. Love it or leave it is jingoism at it's worst. You're not going to be taken seriously using that sort of crap around intelligent people.

I'm generally pretty moderate. I just get upset when I see people trying to infringe upon what I precieve to be a basic freedom.

[VileKyle]

I'm generally pretty moderate.

I just get upset when I see people trying to infringe upon what I precieve to be a basic freedom.

These two statements do not belong together.

[Sylph]

Omg Im literally laughing sooo fucking hard;

Arkansota, the funny part is, you're probably the worst kind of American to wield a gun, a knife, hell even a spoon, let alone your opinion, when even other Americans disagree with you.

You can say whatever you want, however many times you want, it doesn't make it right or better than anyone else's opinions or thoughts.

Your analytical and foundational thinking skills need work, because you clearly lack both foresight and insight and are far too biased and perhaps even brainwashed to even try to see the ugly in your own country.

I know my Island isn't perfect, and I don't defend it's faults either, you seem to think America can't do wrong and your ways are the right/optimal ways.


Advise; be wary of intelligence, it some times leads to self-delusion. Take a look at Mensa. An Organization for intelligence, that lacks it entirely lol

:hugs-and-kisses-smi

[Arkansota]

Omg Im literally laughing sooo fucking hard;

Arkansota, the funny part is, you're probably the worst kind of American to wield a gun, a knife, hell even a spoon, let alone your opinion, when even other Americans disagree with you.

You can say whatever you want, however many times you want, it doesn't make it right or better than anyone else's opinions or thoughts.

Your analytical and foundational thinking skills need work, because you clearly lack both foresight and insight and are far too biased and perhaps even brainwashed to even try to see the ugly in your own country.

I know my Island isn't perfect, and I don't defend it's faults either, you seem to think America can't do wrong and your ways are the right/optimal ways.


Advise; be wary of intelligence, it some times leads to self-delusion. Take a look at Mensa. An Organization for intelligence, that lacks it entirely lol

:hugs-and-kisses-smi

I do not own any weapons. I simply support the right to own them.

America isn't perfect. And neither is any other country.

Self defense is a basic freedom and expecting people to defend themselves with knives and poles is unrealistic.

[nfisher1226]

I'm generally pretty moderate.

I don't personally know you very well so I can't speak to whether or not you're generally moderate. However you have made a number of decidedly extremist statements in this thread alone. I'm reminding you to be a thinking person.

Now as to the thread itself, this is a complicated issue in the USA. It's not going away any time soon. There's a lot of reactionism and hysteria surrounding guns. There is a huge segment of the population that isn't even going to listen to any arguments that they feel infringe on gun rights. My personal opinion is that the founding fathers made a few mistakes and this was one of them. I'm not blaming them. They were a bunch of rich white dudes who did the best they knew how. But they weren't infallible.

The problem as I see it is that the amendment in question was too vague. It's normal interpretation is very, very black and white. If one takes the usual literal interpretation then the ultimate conclusion is that is would be perfectly all right for a private citizen to possess a nuclear bomb and drive a tank. We generally recognize that allowing things like that are not practical. For whatever reason we don't apply that logic to hand held firearms.

Interestingly enough, the word "guns" is never mentioned. Go read it for yourself if you don't believe me. So why do we draw the distinction between guns and other armaments? It's completely arbitrary. Since it's obvious that having heavy artillery in the hands of private citizens is not in keeping with public order and safety, and nobody's crying about wanting their own privately held patriot missiles, why then do we have so many people fighting so hard to apply the principle to hand held firearms?

I'm personally in favor of allowing people to own guns in general. However, to ignore the violence and death even as it's on the increase is not intelligent and in the long run might lead to the amendment in question being repealed in it's entirety. While it's not something we haven't generally done, there is a mechanism in place for just that sort of thing. Refusing to talk about the issue creates just the sort of all or nothing mentality and division that could lead to catastrophe.

Extremist viewpoints always cause problems if allowed to take hold. I categorize the almost religious fervor that rural Americans place on gun issues as an extremist viewpoint. They are, on the whole, unwilling to discuss the matter. Period, end of story good day sir. That's not winning them any points with the moderates or liberals, and it's also not winning our country any points with the rest of the world.

[VileKyle]

Interestingly enough, the word "guns" is never mentioned. Go read it for yourself if you don't believe me.

Wasn't it worded kinda like this?