So just to bring discussion back to the original question ...
... if the general consensus is that in certain circumstances it's acceptable for a person to desire to take their own life, and to have assistance in doing so (again, when the circumstances deem it appropriate), do you think the "helper" (or "helpers") ought to be professionals ? Or relatives ? Or ... ?
I suppose keeping things purely professional does remove the likelihood of people pointing the finger at the relative/s and going "INSURANCE JOB", but my best mate's father always said to him "if ever I get to (a certain state), don't let me carry on", and my best mate undertook to end his life if that were his wish (and believe me, he's not taken that oath lightly - he loves his father more than life itself).
Just a thought ...
!?!?! Shadow !?!?!
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Just thought i'd throw in MY (albeit youthful and therefore full of self-righteous idealism) ideas...
As much as the IDEA of euthanasia seems like a good thing, i could never condone it just because of the risks involved. Until it happens to us personally we can only imagine what being in that kind of state is like, and even IF someone said when they were completely corpus mentis they would want to die give such a situation, it's only theoretical. When my friend dominque was in her twenties she was adamant she didn't want to live to be sixty. Now she's in her fifties all of a sudden it doesn't seem like that's such a hot idea. That was her warning to me about the whole idea (it's odd, she used to be my english teacher and we're best friends, whenever i go home she invites me round for wine. Sure enough, that's how THAT conversation started).
Compare and contrast with a friend of mine from work whose brother-in-law has terminal cancer and has now refused treatment, meaning he will die within the next few days. I totally respect that decision, being bedridden and kept alive by a tube can't be much of a life...
Anyways, my point is that the issue is FAR too complex for there to be any easy answer and there are always FAR too many ifs, ands, buts, and other pluralised conjunctions for it ever to be a viable option. When you decide you're ready to die your mental health will have taken a MAJOR knock anyway, even if it IS just due to the gravity of your situation, so i can't condone it for that reason either. I respect people's decision, it IS their life after all, but the very idea of playing with life and death (and that's NOT playing in the general, it's a game, sense) scares me to the core.
probably could've expressed that better...
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Sox, that is a VERY valid and good point indeed! I was actually thinking along this line too, that people don't always realise what they are saying until it's too late. They say things when they don't even know how they will be affected, often without thinking things through, sort of rolls of the sleeve. And no-one will ever truely know whether they wanted to or not, I personally couldn't carry that guilt on my shoulders, knowing I've helped someone but they might not have wanted to... that in my eyes would make me a murderer.
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Indeed ... so we've identified another problem with it as being the situation where somebody is adamant whilst compus mentis that they don't want to live if they get into a certain condition - like Alzheimer's for example, but then we're not sure either a) we can comply with their wishes when they come down with it, or b) that they would feel the same way if they were able to be asked again.
It really is a fascinating topic to debate, I must take my hat off to Star Twister for raising it ...
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Shadow Wrote:It really is a fascinating topic to debate, I must take my hat off to Star Twister for raising it ...
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Thanks guys for all your comments, keep them coming.......I have had great conversations with my friends about this with so many points of view
xxxxx
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Smurlos Wrote:Sox, that is a VERY valid and good point indeed! I was actually thinking along this line too, that people don't always realise what they are saying until it's too late. They say things when they don't even know how they will be affected, often without thinking things through, sort of rolls of the sleeve. And no-one will ever truely know whether they wanted to or not, I personally couldn't carry that guilt on my shoulders, knowing I've helped someone but they might not have wanted to... that in my eyes would make me a murderer.
You're right.No one has the right to take a life - it's given by God and only He can take it.And suicide it's also a sin in God's eyes.Now you can disagree with that ,but this is the truth.
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It all depends upon the situation, but no one other than the person in that situation should be able to decide.
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xyalfa Wrote:You're right.No one has the right to take a life - it's given by God and only He can take it.And suicide it's also a sin in God's eyes.Now you can disagree with that ,but this is the truth. Careful, xyalfa. The only truth in your statement is that one can choose to disagree.
Your religious convictions are no more than your own opinions and a statement of your faith. You may have an unshaken belief that the Bible is the literal word of your god, you may have a burning personal witness that Jesus is your saviour, lord and god, but truth is something else completely.
You do yourself a disservice by confusing belief and truth.
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xyalfa Wrote:You're right.No one has the right to take a life - it's given by God and only He can take it.And suicide it's also a sin in God's eyes.Now you can disagree with that ,but this is the truth.
Do you ever think about what you say?
I mean we live in the 21st Century
If someone is suffering so terribly...... do you think that is Gods will???
Why is always about God
I think Marshy sums it up deciding between belief and the truth.
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Alrighy, here is an interesting dialogue that I think contains some interesting views. Before I get to it, I'll just state my problem with the way euthanasia is viewed.
Humans have made laws that we should not kill each other. This is to prevent unnecessary deaths of innocent, healthy people. However, this rule does not apply when we are at war, so why is killing in self defence any different than euthanasia. Euthanasia is meant to be used to stop someone's pain when their death is inevitable, it is not meant to be a course of action when someone has a chance to live. However, somehow we sidestep this when we go to war and kill one another for glory and self preversation, but this type of death is praised.
Next, we have a notion that we can kill other creatures because we are the strongest and smartest. Dogs, cats and many other animals are euthanized, but they have just as much right to life as we do. They are living creatures, but somehow our intellect puts us a cut above them to decide their fate, but we put our fate in some non-existant entity... it doesn't make sense. And even worse yet, we hunt simply for the sport of it. We are the only creatures that do this...
Here is the dialogue I want to give you, it is from X/1999 by CLAMP:
Yuzuriha: Why are you doing this?! I just don't get it! What good does it do to destroy buildings and cause earthquakes?!
Satsuki: Why shouldn't I make the earth quake?
Yuzuriha: Why? Because people get hurt! People get killed! ... Do you realize that's what you're doing?!
Satsuki: Yes, of course I do. But there is something I want to ask you. Why shouldn't I kill people? Why is it wrong?
Yuzuriha: Why? Just because!
Satsuki: People kill lots of animals don't they? And trees, and plants. Do they care? Humans don't give it a second thought, the carnage in their wake. Why is that? Because plants are not as smart? Because animals can't talk back? Does that mean you can kill things that can't talk and aren't as smart as you?
Yuzuriha: No!
Satsuki: No? Are you claiming you haven't taken a single life in all you're years? Have you eaten meat? Have you never plucked a flower? Have you never stepped on a tiny bug as you were racing down the street? Animals kill other creatures all the time... to eat and to survive. But people don't need a reason. Humans kill without a thought, just because it suits their purpose. They'll even kill each other - on a whim.
Yuzuriha: But they're not all like that!
Satsuki: True. But even those who aren't like that must kill in order to live. So tell me... why are humans the only animal to be exempted from the law of the hunt? Because they are stonger than any other... top of the heap? What if... an even stronger, smarter creature came along? Coud it kill people? Would that be okay? So I'll ask you again.. why shouldn't I kill people? Why is it wrong?
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