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[BiPenny]

Well, reading through those coming out stories and I am bawling.

I just don't know if I'm ever going to manage to do this myself. And that makes me feel like shit. and I dont know why.

Anyone who knows me, or has chatted to me for any length of time, knows that i am a brash, gobby, confident, forward, larger than life loudmouth of a character. and I rarely give a fuck what people think of me (except my horse riding skills, that matters to me far too much). but i just cant seem to bring myself round to this, which makes me fell even worse considering the push i gave other people to come out.

At the moment I seem to live 2 lives. 1 is down south. where i live and work. down here I am out to just about everyone other than my aunt/uncle etc who live down the road. I laugh and joke about my sexuality, I chat about whoI fancy and I go to gay bars and clubs and mess around with girls. and guys.

2 is up north. where most of my family are. Up north I dont think anyone knows. I said to a friend about 5 or 6 years ago, when I first had a slight inkling, that I might be bi. I doubt she remembers. My parents dont know. My ex colleagues (who i suspect would be the worst if I told them) dont know. my old school friends dont know.

I dont know how I can tell any of them. I dont know what my mum would think or do and god knows shes been through enough shit in the recent time. They know I go to gay bars and have jokingly asked me in the past, I just change subject. If they didnt joke maybe it wouldnt be so hard. I dont know what the hell my dad would do with the information. We never talk about anything like that. We never talked about sex or anything, he as a sort of head nod acknowledgment that I'm not a virgin and thats about it. My mum is so conservative and 'prim and proper', if it werent for my brother and I I would swear she'd never had sex!! I think my brother might be ok with it, he can be a bit homophobic towards guys but I think more through lack of understanding and contact with them rather than pure hatred.

I wouldnt even know where to start. Coming out started online to some unkowns on GaydarGirls. I never met any of them. The first person I actually knew that I told was WLM (about as he came out to me), even that was via email and it was more of a 'i have bisexual tendancies/find women attractive' than 'i am bisexual'. The first person I told face to face was my gay colleague. I had only known him 2 weeks, I had been trying to tell my best friend (who is no longer in the picture, she fell out with me after I stopped working for her, whole other loooong story.) for 5 years and couldnt do it. Somehow Phil was easier to talk to as I didnt really know him and he was gay. His immediate reaction was 'I know'. I have to say I dont think I'm that ibvious in day to day life but when ur on the outside looking in. The next couple of people I told all found out when I went to G-A-Y and I told them rather than them find out as I play tonsil tennis with a girl. Most of them were ok, one girl (the one I have all the problems with at work) made a big show of how much she accepted it; she cant even bear to be alone in the same room as me. Again I think ignorance and fear rather than hatred but it makes me uncomfortable. Telling my boss was no real problem. It sort of came up as there was a possible question of me sharing a room in my accomodation (I DONT DO SHARE) and I thought it was best she knew as both the girls I may have had to share with knew andI didnt think theyd be comfortable in that close proximity (i know I wouldnt have been). I knew my boss would be ok as half the workforce is gay (seriously, want a gay man, go horse showing).

This is now turning into a ramble of crap that I dont even know where its going. I shall stop now as I dont really know what to say next. Coming out has always been a bit of a back of my mind non necessity but for some reason it now seems a bit real.

[marshlander]

Hi BiPenny. Many of us understand what you are saying. It's okay. It's not okay to beat yourself up about things that aren't really your problem, though.

Coming out doesn't have to be the big dramatic announcement. It often happens piecemeal. You tell one or two people and so the ripples spread out.

Obviously I don't know your parents and I don't know your circumstances. My parents are (or were, in the case of my late mother) ardent believers and members of a pretty homophobic religious sect. I was never going to tell them. I'd certainly heard my dad spit feathers when the London Gay Men's Chorus got a higher placing than his barbershop chorus one year and he'd always made silly, inadvertantly offensive jokes and comments. Like you we never discussed sex or anything like it in our family. However, my dad and I eventually got to talk and while not always easy, it's been nothing like the problem I had previously built it up to be. He has been and continues to be very supportive. Being able to talk to him lifted a huge weight off my shoulders, one that I didn't realise how heavy and damaging it was until it was gone.

As a father (and grandfather :eek: ) myself, my love for my children would overcome pretty much anything I think they could throw at me (and some of them have thrown quite a bit). Parents can only offer support to the person they know. When the time is right you'll be able to share with them that little bit of extra information that they probably know about anyway and the chances are it will bring you closer. I hope so. In the meantime, be kind to yourself.

It'll happen when you are good and ready, maybe not in the way you think (unless you plan it and manage it yourself), but your coming out will happen eventually and I believe you will feel better for it.

All the best.

[Shadow]

I take my hat off to Marshlander for yet another insightful, BEAUTIFULLY accurate and 100% appropriate post, fair play babe.

I was going to say that I empathise (as I'm sure every homosexual and bisexual does) with what it's like to be closeted (on whatever level).

It struck me from your post (and I'm going to quote a couplea little bits in a moment) that it's because you have this down south & up north thing going on that it's perhaps easier for you to continue to lead effectively two separate lives, but I think it's important for you not to feel too BAD about that, as the same thing affects most people on some level or another - few and far between are the people that behave the same at work as they do when they're with their family and friends, so if I were in your shoes, I would try and look upon that as being only natural, rather than something to feel bad about ...

... and with that, here come the quotes ...

I dont know what my mum would think or do and god knows shes been through enough shit in the recent time.

I think this is perhaps where the rot starts for most people when it comes to being closeted, as it really is quite a circular cum spiralling situation ... to my mind it goes ...

1) I'm closeted - people (whoever they may be) that matter to me don't know that I'm gay;
2) I want to be myself - I want them to know, but I don't know how to tell them, so;
3) I tend to focus on the negatives (or the negative perceptions) of my sexuality - e.g. I don't want to burden them with the information, or I don't want them to feel ashamed of me for being what I am, or even I don't want them to hate me (in extreme circumstances); and therefore
4) I bottle it up and try to deal with it on my own.

Don't get me wrong, I am never one to advocate an individual engage in a course of action that I believe may lead to more negative than positive outcomes for them - that's not what I'm saying. What I am saying, however, is that when you are closeted, it's easier to get into a bit of a slump whereby you focus on what you feel are the negatives, and let those cloud your vision as to the positives ...

... I don't think any parent would genuinely want their child to be unhappy, but sometimes it's a case of them getting their heads to a point where they can accept that what might not work for them does work for their children, and that this isn't a bad thing - it's just a different thing ...

Gayspeak is a good example of how different people can meet and get along harmoniously AND have a good time whilst they're doing it ... different is good mile: xx.

I think my brother might be ok with it, he can be a bit homophobic towards guys but I think more through lack of understanding and contact with them rather than pure hatred.

I think that one of the other things that comes from dealing with families and family issues, is that families tend to band together if their bonds are good, rather than break apart ... so I would suppose that your brother would be more likely to stand shoulder-to-shoulder with you, because you're his sister and he loves you, than to damn you outright based on his own, perhaps jaded, views of alternative sexualities ...

... but as Marshlander has already said, we don't know your family so I'm just guessing on that point ...

... and finally ...

Coming out has always been a bit of a back of my mind non necessity but for some reason it now seems a bit real.

I think you've hit the nail on the head yourself ... I always used to think when I was closeted that there was no NEED to come out (and I still agree with that logic to be honest) - there is no NEED to come out - you could live your entire life keeping your sexuality to yourself, and nobody need have ANY knowledge of what you get up to in your own privacy, or with whom ...

... but that's because we've used the word NEED ... because just as there is no NEED to come out, so too is there no NEED to penalise yourself by not coming out ... insofar as coming out should - if it works out as it ought - be the key to opening a NUMBER of new doors to you (more than just the closet door) - doors which can lead you to happier places, better times and a brighter future ... because you will just be able to be yourself, in all the forms that that may take. No hiding, no fear, no shame ... just being yourself, and THAT is what makes the process all worthwhile.

.

You're doing fine babe - you'll get there.

.

xx

!?!?! Shadow !?!?!

[wouldlikemuscle]

2 really solid posts there!!

The only thing I could add is based on my own experiences... for someone who's not out to their parents/family, you are doing really well.. I was the absolute of paranoid.. never went out clubbing or owt!! Took me till New Year with you dragging me out to G-A-Y for my first experience 'on the scene' and even that was about 10 months AFTER I'd come out to my mum.. coz I came out in the February to her... still with some paranoia about her wondering what I get up to when I'm out! As you know.. I'm often shall I sharnt I when you phone me up and go wanna go out tonight! :biggrin: but the more I go out the less I care about it... the family that know (there are still some that don't... which is down to them often dishin out homophobic comments... often) have all been fully accepting.

Shadow has said it just right that there is no need to come out. It's whether you WANT to. Don't feel you owe it to anyone to come out to them, whether family, friends, others... it's all down to what you want. Afterall, its your life to lead.

xx

[BiPenny]

Thanks guys. I was a bit of a mess when I wrote that post. For those of you who don't know me too well, when I do mess I DO mess. I dont do things by halves.

I enjoy my 'down south' life so much, and all my family know that I lead this life, but they think I go round soho etc purely as a 'fag hag' :biggrin: .

I dont like to keep things from my parents, especailly my mum, but I dont want to upset the apple cart so to speak. I told my mum when I was having sex, not to start with but for a number of reasons, and her first words were 'I'm really dissapointed in you'. She didnt mean to hurt me but she really did. Thats the sort of thing I want to avoid. That and what I imagine will be inevitable questions that, considering my mum cant even SAY the word sex, will be awkward and embarrasing.

Feeling a bit more posotive on life today, will keep bobbling along but still not really sure!

[wouldlikemuscle]

I enjoy my 'down south' life so much, and all my family know that I lead this life, but they think I go round soho etc purely as a 'fag hag' :biggrin: .

You are tho!! MY fag hag :tongue: (j/k hun)

[BiPenny]

I am your fag hag dear!! But I'm out for me too!!!!

[Smurlos]

I am your fag hag dear!! But I'm out for me too!!!!

I accidentally read your post count "57" as your age then *ducks*

[wouldlikemuscle]

I accidentally read your post count "57" as your age then *ducks*

So you should duck too!! She's feisty is our Penny!

[Shadow]

I think it's also important to appreciate that when you choose to come out, it's not you necessarily doing other people a favour, or demeaning yourself to open-up to them, it's actually quite the opposite.

You're demonstrating your love FOR THEM, by entrusting THEM with something that is very precious to YOU, and which could easily be used as a weapon to hurt you ...

In effect, you're bearing your breast for the knife ... and a lot of people don't appreciate that, so I just thought I'd mention it :redface:.

Personally I think you're ALL doing really well mile: , but I (and I'm sure everybody else here) will be here for you if and when you need me.

boys 'n girls.

xx

!?!?! Shadow !?!?!