matty7 Wrote:"It's not up to Obama to allow it " Pix -Even if this was a person of colour been discriminated against through law then Obama would do nothing too ?
He probably would step in because that would be allowable politically. That is such a law would be soundly condemned by about everyone (even the passive racists) and therefore there'd be more backlash against not acting than by acting against Kansas in this case.
More importantly, religion is still a factor for bigotry against gays and you do not stomp on that in the USA, not if you want to keep people from turning against you. Kansas would say race is not a choice/lifestyle, but sexual orientation is, and furthermore it's an affront to the religious freedom (very important to the USA) to be told they must live in violation of their moral code (that religion was also used to defend racial bigotry is conveniently overlooked). If Obama were to exercise certain powers to overturn this right away then it would be challenged in court and several states would grandstand by enacting similar laws, and the US majority of Christians, including those the POTUS counts on for support, would likely turn against Obama for "violating religious freedoms" (or at least worried about the future of their own political careers). In that case Obama is the one made to look like the one pushing himself around rather than Kansas...and meanwhile the courts are the one to decide anyway (and they will, and I don't doubt the courts will throw it out and that those who passed this law also know it's going to get tossed, this is pure grandstanding to get in good with their conservative base).
Technically speaking, the President has many checks and balances against his power, and his authority over individual states is limited. The president can't just veto those laws without compelling LEGAL (not to be confused with moral or ethical) reason or exercising powers that would be counterproductive and technically supposed to emergency powers (and can be undone by Congress and the Senate). It's the job of the courts to examine and rule upon laws and measures, and btw that includes the laws and decrees of the President himself (though in that case only the SCOTUS can overrule him, though that's not the only check on his power).
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personally I think a store owner aught to be able to do what they see fit, but then I also believe people should be allowed to ban together and boycott them ^_^. Personally if I owned a store and a religious group that sacrifices cats to their god came in.... I would have difficulty serving them. Look at it this way, the store owner is ignorant and hateful do you want your money to go to them?
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^^
I like that idea. especially in making their businesses suffer.
However, in many places those stores would likely get more business than less, at least the local ones. Churches would tell their flocks to go to the ones excluding gays and the sheep would do so. And they'd make others feel like people of questionable morals who didn't do the same, maybe even "expose their kids to those who go there." In the end, the bigoted stores get seen as "high class" and exclusive and do well instead of worse. Heck, plenty of stores in Bible Belt areas can up business by putting up religious symbols (Christian that is, I heard putting up a Star of David can cost them business, and some sort of Atheist sign would probably ruin them), so I imagine "standing up for Christian values" is also good business. After all, God is watching.
Again, that's for certain areas. When they're spread out across the US then the boycott that bites them in the butt is much more feared as not every place is okay with such bigotry, and unlike many racial minorities (especially back when they were legally discriminated against), plenty of gays come from wealthy homes, which big business doesn't want to alienate. It's ironic that the bigger businesses would have to fear it more and yet that seems to be how it works. And at least in this one case at least I can be glad that the big businesses generally do better than local businesses.
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Depressing.. I have now decided to exclude everybody who isn't a MLP from my world. If you don't fit my picture, you are air to me. So I will only serve Twilight Sparkle and friends.
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The proposed law passed only one of two houses in the Kansas legislature. The state Senate killed it.
Unfortunately, nothing in Kansas' current laws prohibits people from discriminating based on orientation. Progressive groups are working to change that, of course.
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Obama is merely a president, with very few real powers to make states submit to his will.
And yes each state can make its own laws to govern its own people, and yes Kansas has recently started passing laws to make it possible for people to maintain their religious freedoms to serve who they choose.
How long will it go? Uncertain. The states have various legal methods to test bills and laws, eventually these new laws will end up in a court or superior court and most likely will be shot down.
Understand that these are political laws being made by the conservative party that is doing its best to make the liberal party look like fools.
The Federal government has yet to get around to enacting laws that stop or prevent discrimination via the notion of 'separation of church and state' which is a bunk political ploy based on the constitution where it says that the government cannot make and enforce a national religion.
It is a broken system, but one that tends to work occasionally.
Litigation and 'rights' will be debated, and new laws will be passed that will undoubtedly ensure equal protection under the law.
It is a process.
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Obama has little to do with it. As far as I know, in most states business owners have the right to deny someone service for ANY reason.
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Tyrion Wrote:Obama has little to do with it. As far as I know, in most states business owners have the right to deny someone service for ANY reason.
Actually that isn't the case, if you're doing business with the general public. There are laws requiring you to sell what you're advertising to anyone who wants to buy it.
If you don't already know about it, you might want to look up the 'lunch counter' protests of the civil rights era.
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You sure about that? I'm not 100% on the law, but there have been several businesses here and in other states that have denied services to LGBT folk simply because of their orientation. For instance, there have been numerous cases where bakeries have denied to make wedding cakes for same-sex weddings (due to their "religious views") -- flat out saying "no, you're gay, I won't give you service". Of course this is terrible for business and usually creates an uproar amongst people in the towns that these businesses reside.. but in every case I've read about it's been legal (or at least no one stopped the businesses from doing this).
I'm sure private businesses can't deny for ANY reason.. but from what I've seen they have a lot of freedom to do so...
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The President - or for that matter, anyone in the US Federal Government, can't do anything to prevent discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation or identity in states where such discrimination is prevalent - with some exceptions.
The States and Territories have ample prerogatives that empower them to exercise sovereignty over their particular territory, almost like a country. The United States is a Federal Republic, it is not a Unitarian form of government. The Constitution of the US grants the Federal Government exclusive authorities such as enforcing the Supreme Law of the Land, which is the Constitution (as well as Federal Court verdicts and international treaties). Anything else is caveated in one of the amendments (the Tenth Amendment) which states that all matters not specifically delegated to the Federal Government are the purview of the States and the people.
As a result, things like the military, an interstate road network, currency, interstate commerce, etc. are the exclusive prerogative of the Federal Government. And we have a Fourteenth Amendment that guarantees all citizens the rights of citizenship. In addition, there is a Civil Rights Act that protects all citizens on the basis of race, creed, color, and national origin. There is also an Americans With Disabilities Act that adds disability status to protected categories. And in all Federal jurisdictions, even within the states, gay and lesbian people enjoy basic equality. The US military now has full equality.
Still, the lack of a national law such as the proposed Employment Non-Discrimination Act, that would add sexual orientation to protected areas, has been repeatedly been blocked by Republicans in Congress.
In 29 states of the US, you can legally be fired, denied services, partner visitations, and virtually all benefits of citizenship. Although this is quickly eroding and more states are embracing full equality for all citizens, the sad fact of life is that many of the less civilized states in the US actively discriminate.
Many Europeans who travel to Florida, or Louisiana, are not aware that their money goes to support an outdated and wicked form of discrimination against gay and lesbians. Same as the entire Deep South, the Plains and some of the Mountain States. Europeans should avoid these states and send a message to these state governments.
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