Losing Virginity?

[swalter]

Given that virginity originally referred to a woman with an in-tact hymen, is it really a relevant concept for gay men in the contemporary context? I certainly understand that one's "first time" is significant, regardless of gender, but I don't know if treating that event as an actual "thing" that can be lost is necessary or helpful.

[ChadCoxRox]

Given that virginity originally referred to a woman with an in-tact hymen, is it really a relevant concept for gay men in the contemporary context? I certainly understand that one's "first time" is significant, regardless of gender, but I don't know if treating that event as an actual "thing" that can be lost is necessary or helpful.

It's a remnant of a Patriarchal society tied to the value of the "clean daughter" in the bartering process that evolved into a control mechanism for religion. It has out grown it's reasonableness yet still exists in the MAJORITY around the world.

Just another one of the concepts, much like tolerance and hate, that the LGBT community has and will continue to be capable of influencing tremendous growth, strength and peace in our civilization(s).

I really REALLY wish there was more solidarity among our ranks in this regard.

PROMOTE!

As an aside, in combination with other threads, most notably the great one on the rise of openly gay people in society, think of the implications relevant to the global population matter that will one day be faced in the coming "age of abundance." Very interesting stuff. For those interested, just google "age of abundance" and check out some of the infographics and videos on the idea/theory.

[Jake]

"The term virgin originally only referred to sexually inexperienced women, but has evolved to encompass a range of definitions, as found in traditional, modern, and ethical concepts.[3][5][6][7] Heterosexual individuals may or may not consider loss of virginity to occur only through penile-vaginal penetration,[3][6][8][9] while people of other sexual orientations often include oral sex, anal sex or mutual masturbation in their definitions of losing one's virginity."

From Wikipedia, which may not be the most reliable source in the world, but meh.

The way I see it, the concept of virginity is in itself a common source of angst. People who grow up in excessively moralist households may feel bad upon losing their virginity and a lot of people, regardless of sexuality can experience angst from still being virgins at an age where it's socially frowned upon. I think it's important that we let every individual define for himself/herself whether they're virgins or not. The definition is not set in stone.

And you couldn't be more right... While Wikipedia may not be the best source of information but it is a good start to further your search. What I gave here does not come from Wikipedia but from colleagues who are very well versed in the sexual identification researches. I could definitely expand more, however this...

The definition is not set in stone

Is exactly what sexologists are claiming. So Wikipedia is indeed accurate on that sense. So we can keep on debating on the concept (yes I do call it a concept) of virginity, but yet even the most specialized one will not come with a right definition as from one culture to another, the definition changes. However what I was pointing out is that Gays can define virginity as they want, the matter and the fact in the heterosexist societies that we live in... Gay sex is not considered as "having sex" therefore you will hear from some bigots that gays are still virgins. I've heard it before. Obviously it doesn't applies to me since I have had children the natural way... But honestly WHO THE FUCK CARES?. We gays know fairly well that what we do with other dudes is SEX and having been on both sides of the fence... one is not even comparable to the other. If a pure hetero who even never had a finger up is ass knew, he would seriously reconsider about its own definition of "having sex"

[CellarDweller]

It's a remnant of a Patriarchal society tied to the value of the "clean daughter" in the bartering process that evolved into a control mechanism for religion. It has out grown it's reasonableness yet still exists in the MAJORITY around the world.

Just another one of the concepts, much like tolerance and hate, that the LGBT community has and will continue to be capable of influencing tremendous growth, strength and peace in our civilization(s).

I really REALLY wish there was more solidarity among our ranks in this regard.

PROMOTE!

I don't think that gay people need to promote the 'dumping' (for lack of a better word) the use of the word 'virginity'.

I mean, didn't the sexual revolution in the 60s and 70s start that? Add to it TV shows like "Teem Mom" and things of that nature, I think society is moving away from the concept of virginity.

yes, as you said, the majority still hold on to it, but don't you think that women are coming to this same conclusion on their own?

[Jake]

I think society is moving away from the concept of virginity.

Might want to precise which societies you're talking about. If you include several areas of India, Many countries of Africa, South America and still many states of the USA and not to forget most of Islamic countries are still living in the dark ages and still consider the purity of virginity.

If the question has come up here from an 18 years old living in a modern and develop country I don't believe that the battle has been won yet.

[ChadCoxRox]

I don't think that gay people need to promote the 'dumping' (for lack of a better word) the use of the word 'virginity'.

Well I totally agree when you frame it like that. I did not mean LGBT "shoulder the burden," I was simply acknowledging the positive consequential corollary that exists not a some sort of subject specific quest or duty, but simply a perk by virtue of our efforts toward equality.

I mean, didn't the sexual revolution in the 60s and 70s start that? Add to it TV shows like "Teem Mom" and things of that nature, I think society is moving away from the concept of virginity.

Nah... that's more intrinsic to first world countries though this demarcation is not accurate, just as close as I can get for the sake of this discussion. There is SO MUCH MORE continued harm and neglect going on all over the world because of the objectification of women for the sake of material and religious control and greed. We in first world countries get shielded from it to a degree beyond our awareness.

yes, as you said, the majority still hold on to it, but don't you think that women are coming to this same conclusion on their own?

Certainly. Again, the point was not about the process being exclusive to LGBT efforts but another side effect. I say we take credit for the all the good we can in spite of the overwhelming efforts to point out, frame and display all the misinformation and ignorance.

[ChadCoxRox]

How do gay males define "losing" their virginity? Is it merely having had a little bit of hand sex from another guy, or what? I am actually most interested in knowing: do you have to have had anal sex with another guy in order to be considered a non-virgin?

I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that if a worldwide survey were done you'd find that the concept of virginity would not be applied to same-sex relations. Further, the most popular application among same-sex relations would define it as penetration. Methods and boundaries for the term penetration is where the spread of data would literally fall apart.

[72jay]

As others have said, depends on how you personally define it. For me it is as follows...
For guys: anal sex
For girls: vaginal sex .. (I've never really thought about it before, but I'd count anal too)

In a way I see a guy as having 2 different virginity's :
* as the 'top' in anal with another guy(or vaginal with a girl)
* as the 'bottom' in anal with another guy

[Ruru]

[COLOR="Purple"]If you wanna get detailed just divide it into bits and analyze from there, what is always whole has started as bits. This is as specific as the term "virginity" in the sexual kingdom gets anyway, since they're all different parts with different requirements to meet the same end.

Mind stops being virgin once you engage in an intimate moment that will drive itself into a sexual encounter.
Penis stops being virgin once it has been used. (in more ways than one)
Mouth stops being virgin once it has tried some nether region's meat. (lick or suck, what's the difference, it's an organ)
Rear entrance stops being virgin once it was touched outside of it's usual performance. (if it contains and expels, then entering in whatever way is considered the opposite of it's performance)
Vagina entrance stops being virgin once it has somewhat fulfilled it's purpose. (which is copulation)


All in all if you want a broad/general defenition of virginity or loss of it, go with humbletangerine, no matter how specific you wanna get being a virgin is always remotely linked to lack of experience, ofcourse this is more of a general term that englobes everything that you can call virgin, even something that is not sexual by nature.[/COLOR]

[Bluelight]

Everyone has different ideas of what constitutes virginity, but I feel like some guys will tell you you're still a virgin if you haven't done anal because they think of sex as a way to measure someone's worth and they need something to place themselves above other gay guys, just speaking from my experience with certain people in the past.

In my opinion, sex is sex, end of story.