Michael Sam's kiss

[Wade]

You said it, Wade! Heterosexuals feel no compunction whatsoever for kissing in public, especially in a celebratory context. Why shouldn't we be able to do the same? We're struggling for equality under the law, and societal respect equivalent to what's shown to heterosexuals. If Michael Sam can't kiss his boyfriend in celebration of his incredible achievements, what the hell are we fighting for?

Very true. The difference is that if his girlfriend was standing next to him, he wouldn't even hesitate to kiss her, and no one would bat an eye. Yet for gays we have to second guess every fucking move in case it might make others uncomfortable. Well... fuck em. I'm proud of Michael Sam, not for being gay, but for not showing shame in who he is or who he loves and kowtowing to the mainstream (Oh, and the football thing's cool too, I guess). If it makes someone uncomfortable, then that's THEIR issue to deal with, not Michael's.

[MRossW]

That was one of the most beautiful things I'd seen in a while, and I found myself getting all teary-eyed not only sharing their joy, but in realizing it was actually on national television! And then the entire next day on the main page of CNN's website, top and center! I side with those who say when people see our capacity to really love, they'll stop focusing on what we're doing with our genitals. (Why is it that the most uptight people are so focused on everyone else's genitals?)

[ceez]

There's still a debate going on on whether or not he was picked so late because he is gay, he is after all one of the highest ranked defensive players in the draft which is also why everyone is making a big deal about him being drafted. Unlike Jason Collins (who was a decent player) Sam is not only starting his career openly gay but has the potential to be a great player. Plus this draft was just wierd anyway, I thought a few player would get picked earlier, which still is not bad Tom Brady is one of the greatest quarterbacks in the nfl and was picked 199th in the draft.

[philsguy95]

I voiced my opinion in what I thought was a respectful way, and I get misconstrued and a little attacked for it. I get differences of opinion, but I was just expressing how I feel, and to have someone challenge it that way is kinda rude. I was courageous enough to voice an unpopular opinion, I don't have anything to hide so why automatically call bullshit on me? I don't like the kiss cam either and I usually turn to chat up a friend when it pops up. ESPN broadcasting or paying excess mind to it was my issue as opposed to the minimal attention they paid to other draft selections. I'm not misinformed and I'm just expressing a thought that I think is well-informed regardless of whether or not you all agree with it. If Sam weren't gay, he wouldn't be showered with publicity by ESPN on draft day in a way many other heterosexual players are not, and I think that's a valid point.

I used to feel comfortable expressing my opinion on GS, but now it feels like I'm just gonna get attacked and called a misinformed idiot. It almost feels obligatory even saying I mean well cause I know you just think I'm a moron. I think I'm gonna back off for a while. Clearly people see me in a way that isn't accurate and I don't think I'm wanted. I never meant to upset anyone or cause offense, just trying to find some place to feel comfortable expressing myself, but I guess I should be more selective about that.

[Wade]

^^ I don't think anyone's attacking you, and if it came off that way from me then I apologize. I did indeed say I thought the idea that you wouldn't be offended at a guy and girl kissing is bullshit, I apologize for that specifically. I shouldn't put words in your mouth or challenge how you say you feel about something. You know you better than I, and I should take your word for it.

Other than that one point though, I thought this whole discussion was fairly mild. We disagree about something, that's all. No one was being insulting.

You said "If Sam weren't gay, he wouldn't be showered with publicity by ESPN on draft day in a way many other heterosexual players are not." And I totally agree with this! However, I think most everyone in the world does too. No one's hiding the fact that Michael Sam is getting this attention because he's gay. Unfortunately, it's newsworthy. The NFL is seen as the single most homophobic, red statish organization in the United States. To have an openly gay man be accepted into it is a huge milestone for the salvation of America's soul, maybe the last one (except that marriage thing).

Now, I'm going to completely not listen to my own advice and put words in your mouth. I'm going to assume I know why you feel the way you feel, because I can relate. It's risky... but dammit, I'm nothing if not a thrill seeker.

I understand your frustration that it needs to be broadcasted. I too wish we lived in a world where a footballer could say "me and my boyfriend" and not have the talking heads talk about it incessantly for weeks. It makes you and me feel like outsiders still, and that sucks. But we have to go through this now, because next time it happens it really won't be such a big deal because it won't be new. What we are experiencing are the birthing pains of acceptance.

Just think though! You'll get to tell your grandkids (or someone else's grandkids... I don't know your familial plans, stop pestering me!) about the crazy time in history when the world got all excited about Michael Sam cause he was gay. And then the kids'll be all "But Granda Phil, what's gay?" And then you'll be all "Well, Billy, gay was a label we'd attach to person so we'd know who they liked to break it off in" And Billy'd be all like "But that's silly grandpa. You mean people back then really gave a shit about who someone loved?" And you'd be all like "Yep. Now let's teleport to Pluto and get a popsicle."

[East]

I loved his kiss and am glad it ran so long because it is about time that we are open about who we are and not afraid to show each other affection...straight people do it all the time. For the people who think it is being "shoved down their throat".......straight people have been shoved down every gay person's throat from day one...

I am grateful to Sam and his boyfriend for allowing themselves to be vulnerable and open in front of the camera

[TonyAndonuts]

Man, those Youtube comments sure are something......

On one hand, it does kind of annoy me a little how whenever something has to do with homosexuality, the media has to jump right on it because they know it'll receive attention. Good or bad, it's still attention. It kind of feels like we're just being used. But on the other hand,I seriously doubt things would change for the better if the media chose to ignore LGBT topics. There'd probably be even more ignorant and hateful people.

[ChadCoxRox]

I voiced my opinion in what I thought was a respectful way, and I get misconstrued and a little attacked for it. I get differences of opinion, but I was just expressing how I feel, and to have someone challenge it that way is kinda rude. ...
I used to feel comfortable expressing my opinion on GS, but now it feels like I'm just gonna get attacked and called a misinformed idiot. It almost feels obligatory even saying I mean well cause I know you just think I'm a moron. I think I'm gonna back off for a while. Clearly people see me in a way that isn't accurate and I don't think I'm wanted. I never meant to upset anyone or cause offense, just trying to find some place to feel comfortable expressing myself, but I guess I should be more selective about that.

Hey Philsguy, I did not intend my reply to be taken as an attack friend, not in the least! I was just engaging your opinion with my own take on the matter and did not mean to be experienced as confrontation or in complete disagreement. It's just the nature of conversation and I hope you'll forgive the lack of complete and total comfort in the process of sorting ideas, thoughts and feelings in this "choppy," online, forum kind of way. Feeling challenged might lead to more understanding and working together to work through the thoughts and still be forum friends is what makes our relationships here ROCK!!!! So I will certainly apologize for any misunderstanding and offer you my idea that our friendship here is FAR more important to me than various opinions about that footage. Cool? Please? Pretty please?

[ChadCoxRox]

I'm not a big fan of anyone receiving preferential treatment due to their sexuality, and let's be honest: this guy was the 248th overall pick in the 7th round; the only reason he's being filmed is because he's gay. Is his moment no more touching than the heterosexual 248th or 250th or 17th or 39th or 145th pick? I get uncomfortable watching anyone play out an intimate moment in public. The first kiss was fine for me (a little uncomfortable to watch, but passable). After that, it was just excessive and exploitative on the part of ESPN. Plus, I have a hard time seeing this as genuine. Everyone reacts differently, but I can't imagine my first reaction to getting drafted being automatically turning to my boyfriend and kissing him over and over. People need to stop being paranoid and assuming those who don't like the video are homophobic. Some people just don't like seeing intimate moments played out on their TV's. When AJ McCarron had a similar exchange with his girlfriend, it was just a quick, almost nondescript peck on the cheek, the same one his mom gave him. That's easy to watch, but the Sam kiss is just a tad uncomfortable for people, me included and I'm gay. It's not always a matter of being homophobic, sometimes it's just a matter of comfort level with public displays of affection and intimacy that feel excessive, and possible a tad false. I might get shredded for this, but that's just how I feel. Obviously some people are upset because it's two men, but not everyone who's upset is upset for that reason.

I've returned to shore up and strengthen my apology to Philsguy because I think a good point is made in the reply that I didn't acknowledge originally. Philsguy you are 100% spot on in your observation that reasoning behind taking issue with the airing/publishing of the home video of the draft notification includes more than just those who see it as antigay or indecent on moral grounds. Indeed there are easily a myriad of reasons behind it.

I think what concerns me though is the specific arguments that it was put out for public consumption to try to cram homosexuality in the public's face and that it portrays same-sex relations as disgusting or sick. Regardless, it remains a very clear and strong and BEAUTIFUL example of the natural reactions of someone in that circumstance regardless of their orientation.

Your ideas and opinion were based on sound thoughts I just feel like he did not get preferential treatment. So I hope things are clearer and resolved for us because I would HATE to have anything to do with your feeling uncomfortable posting in ANY way on ANY matter!!!!! :eek:

[Wade]

I've decided that Anderson Cooper will now speak for me, cause he's better at sound making sense then i is

http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/...n.cnn.html