himself Wrote:These mutations are probably a good thing in widely spoken languages because you get to see languages evolving (although the down side is that the dialects / versions of the language aren't seen as equal and people are judged for the brand of the language they speak, e.g. black Americans may be looked down upon for using African American Vernacular English). In Irish, there are so few speakers that the 'incorrect' version spoken by non-native speakers (who outnumber native speakers) dominates and, in the end, it will be the one to survive, at the expense of the 'correct' version of the Irish language spoken by native speakers.
I have to contend with precisely the same thing from my students every day. They don't get it that some prepositions are left out in English where the French use one, or the other way round.
It's always ''they obey at their father'' and ''he looks the man''. Most annoying. I'm actually lucky if I get that third person final S too.
One of our pet hates, as English teachers is ''I am agree''... because the French don't perceive that word as a verb but as an adjective, when the French equivalent actually uses an adverbial phrase anyway, so it doesn't even make sense.
Je suis d'accord = I agree and Je ne suis pas d'accord = I don't agree. How difficult would it be just to learn the whole phrase and NOT try to translate it word for word, like a stupid Google translation ?
princealbertofb Wrote:I have to contend with precisely the same thing from my students every day. They don't get it that some prepositions are left out in English where the French use one, or the other way round.
It's always ''they obey at their father'' and ''he looks the man''. Most annoying. I'm actually lucky if I get that third person final S too.
One of our pet hates, as English teachers is ''I am agree''... because the French don't perceive that word as a verb but as an adjective, when the French equivalent actually uses an adverbial phrase anyway, so it doesn't even make sense.
Je suis d'accord = I agree and Je ne suis pas d'accord = I don't agree. How difficult would it be just to learn the whole phrase and NOT try to translate it word for word, like a stupid Google translation ?
As an English speaker, it is heavily ingrained that agreeing is something that you do so, maybe, for French speakers, the idea that agreement is a state of being is also heavily ingrained. I know very little French but, when I think of things like, "I'm hungry," I automatically think of the phrase, "J'ai faim" rather than the word 'faim'. (In Irish, "I'm hungry" is "Tá ocras orm," which means "hunger is on me / there is hunger on me.") I have been refreshing my memory of French recently, using Duolingo. It's repetitive but, after a while, you get a kind of 'natural' feel for French sentence structure. It's almost like brainwashing / hypnotism.
Interestingly, apparently Manx was dying, but then someone took it into his (or was it her?) hands to educate a number of young speakers and now Manx is having a revival.
All that you've said more or less happens here in Portuguese as well; but at times it's even worse;
Because often times, especially amongst "older" people, the pronoun switch from "Tu" to "Lhe" when speaking to a younger person, would probably offend an English speaker, if said in English;
As "Lhe" is the (Archaic) form of "It" , often used as:
"lhe estás: (it) you are"
"lhe amo: 1) I love it/2) I love You"
Also, the frequency in which Verbs and Pronouns are ridiculously flexible in comparison say to French or Spanish;
"Lhe diz-me" : You tell me
"Lhe eu diz" : You tell me (lit. "You say (to) me?)
"Diz pra mim" : tell me (more like a command)
I think similar things happen in a lot of the romance languages, if not all of them :x I could be wrong
princealbertofb Wrote:Interestingly, apparently Manx was dying, but then someone took it into his (or was it her?) hands to educate a number of young speakers and now Manx is having a revival.
I think Manx actually did 'die', in the sense that there was a time, a few decades ago, where there were no native speakers left (although there may have been people alive at the same who had learned the language later in life). I find it interesting, though. Manx (known as Gaelg - pronounced Gilk or Gelk, I think), has a very different spelling system than Irish or Scottish Gaelic. I don't think the Manx-speaking Manx people were ever really literate so the spelling system was invented relatively recently. It is more phonetic, I think, than Irish or Scottish Gaelic but I think Gaelic / Celtic enthusiasts don't look very highly on the spelling system. Irish has a strange spelling system but it is very regular so it doesn't take too long to master the relationship between the written language and the spoken language. One thing I don't really like about the Manx revival is that they speak 'Manx' in a Manx English accent. That wouldn't be so bad several decades ago but, apparently, the Manx accent has been really Anglicised in recent years so the way Manx people speak English now sounds different to the way Manx people spoke Manx before it died and was then brought back to life, if that makes sense. For example, the current Manx English accent is non-rhotic (R is not pronounced before a consonsant or at the end of a word, e.g. 'butter' is pronounced something like 'buttuh'). When Manx people speak Manx nowadays, they do the same thing with Rs (or, at least, some of them do). But the Irish are the same. Over here, people mistakenly think that, in speaking Irish, we can just use the same sounds that we use when we speak English (sorry if that's unclear). E.g. in native Irish speech, the letter R is not meant to be retroflex. It is meant to be tapped. Also, Irish has a system of broad (velarised) and slender (palatalised) consonants. Learners don't seem to bother with that, partly because their teachers never bothered making a distinction between broad and slender consonants, and their teachers before them, too.
I would choose, first of all, to learn how to speak perfectly English, because it's the universal language. My second choice would be German, because I live here now
deepnight Wrote:I would choose, first of all, to learn how to speak perfectly English, because it's the universal language. My second choice would be German, because I live here now
So which language is your Native language if not English or German?
But in any event fear not! For there are many people, both Native Speakers and Not, who speak English and could help you on your skills, should you need that help and if they are willing to give it.
English is a complicated language, only because it has a lot of words and (honestly nonsensical) idioms that in terms of "logic" makes it seem weird, but is for this reason a little more expressive in terms of the amount of ways you are able to express your thoughts.
Which ultimately makes the language analytical and slightly harder, but it isn't "the hardest", as every language has it's own unique challenges.
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