If this is redundant, sorry. I've just not seen anything similar.
For all the talk about gay marriage and those of us who commit to it, I'm persuaded there's a larger group to which marriage isn't all that important. Even decades ago when I was in very committed relationships and had marriage been possible, I wouldn't have considered it. Now, at 70, I don't expect to be asked and I'm certain no one will ask me. However, there's a very large percentage of the gay community to whom it's only important as a right to be gained, not one to personally use. I would settle for having a very long term relationship in which my partner could inherit from me, had the same rights as a married couple when it comes to taxation, property and our standing in the eyes of the law. That said, Congratulations to those of you who do and to the rest, standing by me, anything going to persuade you to change your mind on the issue?
![[-]](https://gayspeak.com/images/duende_v3_local/collapse.png)
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I don't believe in marriage except for the legal rights, tbh. I'm all for equality so gays and lesbians have the choice, but it's not MY choice.
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I think that marriage is an old fashioned notion well past its prime.
I fail to see the whole sanctity aspect there. Perhaps I know too many people on their second, third, fourth marriage?
Or perhaps Brittany Spears marriage of about an hour drove the point home that those vows are really silly and meaningless?
Or maybe having spent the majority of my life being told that I can't possibly love another man by being denied this so called 'right' just jaded me to the concept...
My take on it is that marriage, like any other human concept, is deeply and profoundly flawed and is for the most part a meaningless thing. Humans make promises/vows yet continue to make impossible ones that they just can't live up to.
To have and to hold, forsaking all others until death do us part....
Yeah.... riiight.
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Agreed. When I grew up and matured, realizing that the fairy tale is nothing real, it was not easy to "let go", but education gives us power to have real happiness instead of running after some fake ideal.
Having said that, I'm happy for those of you in successful marriages. 
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I know that I wouldn't marry. I would feel tied to the other person and it would eventually kill any relationships we had.
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Well,I need to get married,at least religiously. Legally,I wouldn't mind much,but there are certain rights like when he's admitted to hospital and only immediate family could visit,that's when I would wish I have married him legally.
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Hmmm...I agree, Charon, there are a large number of gay people who have NO desire for marriage, but do want all to have the option, which makes them rather nice people. VERY nice people.
Years ago when marriage was opened up to gay people here in Canada, we thought about it, talked about it, and we tried to imagine us in some church getting married and so said no. It felt too odd.
Then, in 2009, sitting on the back deck, Bill popped the question and I said sure, but with a marriage commissioner and in the backyard. We also decided we didn't want a whole lot of pomp and circumstance, nor families getting involved with planning it, so we gave everyone, including us, 7 days notice, lol.
The commissioner wrote beautiful and non religious vows for us to say to each other, and we decide not to alter them as she suggested.
There is something to be said for standing before friends and families and declaring your love to one another, and having it reflected in writing, and coming with that declaration a host of civil/legal rights.
I recommend doing this last, not first, in a relationship. I think there'd be a lot less divorces this way.
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Bowyn Aerrow Wrote:I think that marriage is an old fashioned notion well past its prime.
I fail to see the whole sanctity aspect there. Perhaps I know too many people on their second, third, fourth marriage?
Or perhaps Brittany Spears marriage of about an hour drove the point home that those vows are really silly and meaningless?
Or maybe having spent the majority of my life being told that I can't possibly love another man by being denied this so called 'right' just jaded me to the concept...
My take on it is that marriage, like any other human concept, is deeply and profoundly flawed and is for the most part a meaningless thing. Humans make promises/vows yet continue to make impossible ones that they just can't live up to.
To have and to hold, forsaking all others until death do us part....
Yeah.... riiight.
But maybe that's not quite fair to those who CAN commit, those who do need the security that a civil marriage procures. Forget about all the sentimentality, it's just a way of knowing that if you go, your favourite partner on earth will not find times difficult (they always are when you lose someone anyway).
It's also a way of knowing that you get first call if your partner is taken ill, or of making sure you won't be sent away from the hospital if he (she) is sick and ailing with no right to visit or to take important decisions.
It's all very well to say 'no' to marriage, but what it does give is freedom and leverage to the couple, the liberty to cast off the shackles of family when the family has an inappropriate stance on the relationship and thinks they can take things in their own hands.
No one needs to get married if they don't want to, neither do straight couples anyway. But there can't be anything really wrong with an institution that brings some form of safety and some form of stability. The gay population have been called abnormal and sick, and we've been formerly credited with being unstable, shakey, not dependable, unreliable, etc, because of the very secretive nature of our sexual lives when our needs couldn't be met as a normal part of human sexuality.
With things settling down, maybe there is case for us to show that we are stable, happy and reliable, albeit not in a straight relationship.
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I can't say never. But I can say that until it came up in my own life, I'm of the impression that it's not for me. Who knows where my mind or heart would be, though, if it came up in my own life.
That said? I think it's important to have the choice, regardless of it's 1 out of 10 that want it, or 1 out of 1,000,000 that want it.
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TwisttheLeaf Wrote:I can't say never. But I can say that until it came up in my own life, I'm of the impression that it's not for me. Who knows where my mind or heart would be, though, if it came up in my own life.
That said? I think it's important to have the choice, regardless of it's 1 out of 10 that want it, or 1 out of 1,000,000 that want it.
Exactly my point, Twisty. It's important to have the choice, and maybe it does make more sense to straight couples who are going to raise children and bring up a family (then there's all that stuff about heredity and inheritance etc) ... Marriage means there are records somewhere, and it means we can find out about our forebears, which sometimes can be useful for all sort of reasons, medical and all. With traceability being now so important, why should it be ok for us to trace where our beefsteak comes from but not being able to know what lineage we come from?
It would be great, however, that there were no longer any stigma on people who don't wish to marry.
It has appeared, from conversations later in life, that my grandfather, whom I never knew, had had a child out of wedlock before marrying my grandmother. Because all of this was hush-hush, my mother and uncle never knew about their elder sibling (I believe a sister was mentioned), a relative they might have wanted to know about, and have a relationship with. The generation that might have given us answers about this relative has now passed away, my mother has passed away and she probably didn't know many of the details anyway... Now we don't know where that part of the family has gone. If that 'aunt' had been recorded somewhere, I might still have someone on that side of the family. Now, I'll never know if I have cousins and what they're doing. I find that a great shame.
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