attractions

[MikeW]

... I just don't know how to be myself. If that makes sense. And i hate confrontation, i don't know why people got to be so mean all the time. I talk super low and i don't have any confidence in myself or know what I'm good at. wow where did that all come from?? yay great free therapy thanks

I see guys telling other guys to 'just be yourself' online all the time. It is meant to be supportive but I agree with you , it isn't always that easy. What the hell does it 'mean' anyway? Who am I? how do I know? I may know some things about myself (that i'm attracted to other guys, for example; of that I'm sure) but there may be a LOT of other areas of 'myself' that are far less clear.

The whole lack of self confidence is tied in with that, too. It is difficult to feel 'confident' about what we're unsure of.

There are different 'types' of people too. Without getting into 'labels' which memechose will want to kick all our butts for, it is clear that HE is one 'type' of person, where *I* am quite another. Some people are, by nature, more 'self-confident' than others. How we are nurtured (parents, family, friends) growing up does matter but I know people who are very self confident who grew up in less than supportive homes. The opposite can also be true.

Factor into this that (I assume) you're still quite young. Our 'identities' don't stop forming once we pass 18 and are legally 'adults'. Who I am now isn't who I was at age 40, who I was then wasn't who I was at 20, and so on. I didn't even begin to 'feel' like I was an adult until I got into my late 20s, early 30s.

Confidence building is a whole big issue. I don't know you but my suggestion is two things: 1) find something that interests you (doesn't matter what other people think about it) and dive headlong into it. Learn everything you can about it. So, even if it is just 'one' thing, you can feel confident that you know more about it than most people. 2) Start exercising your body more. Just what that means could vary. For some it means weight lifting, for others it means rock climbing or swimming or running or bike riding or playing some sport. Whatever. It needs to be something you enjoy, something you don't have to 'force' yourself to do. Well, maybe, to begin with, but once you get into it you love it so much you can't wait to do it. (If that makes sense.) If I had it all to do over again, I would have gotten into some martial art or something competitive (totally opposite what I was like as a kid growing up which was very withdrawn, fearful, and reserved).

The point being that if you build self confidence in one area it sort of spills over into other areas of your life. Depending on your personality type you may never be the roustabout that memechose is BUT you may begin to feel considerably less likely to just try and 'fit in' to 'get along'. All of us do that one way or another, you know. Some more, some less.

Anyway, my 3¢.

[Adam]

And for Adam's identical question.

Go here and follow the conversation about my room mate.
http://gayspeak.com/showthread.php?t=32892

OK, I get your relationship with your roommate. What I asked you, is why is that so incomprehensible in the "gay world"?

[Virge]

DAMN MIKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You sound like you've found my stash of optimism enemas. There's not one single word of what you said that I can improve on ---- and we all know I'm the high priest of everything you mentioned!!!!!!!!! hahahhahahahahahahaha.... one day I'll have a bathrobe collection like the pope's.

Luaj..... I get a bit short and "in your face" on some issues.... But you don't want to get me started on things like positive attitude, confidence and wonders that come from personal challenges. I become an infomercial. I can trace my confidence back to something my parents did. They kinda lied to me from age six to seventeen and didn't let me know I had a learning disability. That meant I grew up loving school but it sure was hard as hell. That perpetual challenge instilled in me the idea that I have the power to do anything I decide to do >>> CONFIDENCE.

If you're not being challenged on a daily basis it stands to reason you'd be in a confidence shit hole. Honest to god.... I go out of my way looking for intellectual, spiritual, physical and every other kinds of challenges DAILY. I laff about myself and say I like hunting bears with plastic forks.

And the fringe benefits of this type of attitude is you cannot contain it. It becomes a positive influence on ever human and beast you interact with... so... I'm thinking about meeting everyone on the face of the earth so I can change it!!!!!!!! hahahhahahahahaha!

[Virge]

OK, I get your relationship with your roommate. What I asked you, is why is that so incomprehensible in the "gay world"?

In a single word................. LABELS.

Everyone is OCD about making everything and everyone they encounter fit into a pre-existing label in order to make it comprehensible.
So when they meet up with someone or something that does not fit into their pre-existing labels they squeeze, push, fold and cram it into a label they like rather than ever consider

"Are my labels all wrong?"

read the things said in that thread and you'll see a group effort to do what I just described above.

I can promise you life is much more fun if you live it without having to label everything and everyone.

[Adam]

In a single word................. LABELS.

Everyone is OCD about making everything and everyone they encounter fit into a pre-existing label in order to make it comprehensible.
So when they meet up with someone or something that does not fit into their pre-existing labels they squeeze, push, fold and cram it into a label they like rather than ever consider

"Are my labels all wrong?"

read the things said in that thread and you'll see a group effort to do what I just described above.

I can promise you life is much more fun if you live it without having to label everything and everyone.

I totally completely entirely agree about labels. What I want to know is, why are you specifying that it's incomprehensible in the GAY world. Isn't it also (and maybe more so)
incomprehensible in the straight world?

[Virge]

I totally completely entirely agree about labels. What I want to know is, why are you specifying that it's incomprehensible in the GAY world. Isn't it also (and maybe more so)
incomprehensible in the straight world?

yes of course....... but I was speaking directly to gays at the time I said that and had that example about my room mate in my head at that moment.

Let me give you another example.... I've yet to meet a straight person who's let on that they think there's anything sexual going on with me hanging out with an extended group of about a dozen healthy mostly heterosexual men about my age a great deal of the time. It's really neat that they can tell girlfriends or wives they're going to hang out with me and the women never become suspicious of any hanky panky.

Now.... go talk to almost any local gay men or women (60 mile radius is "local" up here) and most will speculate or even tell you I'm fucking all the straight guys I hang out with....

>>>>So when they meet up with someone or something that does not fit into their pre-existing labels they squeeze, push, fold and cram it into a label they like rather than ever consider

"Are my labels all wrong?"

[Buzzer]

I think virtually every thing you said is a good point that resonates more than a little bit with what does happen with regards to how communities regard labels.

Where I differ from you probably is that my dispute with labels or the concept of them is far less than, in your example, my dispute with people who feel qualified to sum up the thoughts or private leanings of total strangers and affix a label to them unilaterally-- as other gay men or lesbians in your community have done to you and your friends, for instance.

To me, labels are just tools. They can be inaccurate. They can be used the wrong way. But they can also be used constructively.

But when someone says "you are an x" in any case of dispute with how you identify yourself (or choose not to), it's tantamount to saying "I know your experiences and your reality better than you do, so I'm taking over and defining you." And that's when the use of labels is beyond arrogant.

Am I really, really skeptical sometimes when people on gay forums identify as straight, while talking about their frequent sex romps with men? Sure. But I'm never going to be able to climb into their head and really understand how they feel or what really makes them tick as individuals who aren't me... so there's always the possibility that my doubts, however strong, always run the risk of being completely misinformed and just filtered through my own little narrow filter of "this is how it was for me." I think people too attached to quick & easy labelling can't do that... or won't.

Hopefully that sums me up on labels.

[Virge]

↑↑↑↑↑ @ Buzzer

I agree all the way....... but looking over your last paragraph about 4 times I feel a need to strategically repost this to bring up a different perspective on what you said about heterosexual men....

[SIZE="5"][COLOR="Red"]"Here’s a graph showing the actual sexual types of the approximately 8,000 men and women who have taken the test, by percentage and broken down according to whether the subject self-identified as heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual:"
[/COLOR][/SIZE]
Those people (male and female ) who self-identified as heterosexual tested out as
20% ambisexual
55% heteroflexible
3% polyamorous
22% STRAIGHT ↓↓↓↓Click to view in detail


http://flexuality.wordpress.com/take-the-test/

[SIZE="5"]Conclusion?
MEN FUCKING MEN.
It's not just for gays anymore[/SIZE]

[Buzzer]

[SIZE="5"]Conclusion?
MEN FUCKING MEN.
It's not just for gays anymore[/SIZE]

For sure. I guess I've just always been comfortable with the notion that sexuality is far more fluid than our current culture allows definition or open expression for (and I do very much blame our culture for that... the labels are just the tools they use to express those attitudes). Plenty of ancient as well as non-western cultures give ample proof of that idea that sexuality is nowhere near so black-and-white crystallized into two categories as our current society socially enforces. And I say enforce because our culture largely ascribes to the same one-drop rule that was assigned once upon a time as the test of whiteness... if you have a drop that isn't white, you're totally defined as belonging to that group, not to whiteness. We treat sexuality the same way. If a man went through his life with 5% male partners and 95% female, society largely wouldn't recognize him as straight, or even as bi.... most people would say he's probably a closeted gay male. That's how the narrow, limited rubric is 'enforced.' Hell, a guy confessing having even had a crush on another male at one point is more than enough, in the minds of many of his friends, girlfriends or family, to plant the idea in their heads for the rest of their lives that he may secretly be really gay and deeply repressing it.

I definitely get that all of that happens, and labels are largely used to enforce those ideas. I think the *massive* amount of one-time experiment stories or "one time at camp" stories or "once when I was with my frat buddies" stories, we should recognize there's a lot more fluidity to sexuality, but for some reason, we just reject it as a culture and instead keep defaulting to "everyone REALLY just wants one thing... they may just be denying it."

[Virge]

↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑
My tin foil hat must need new batteries.
You're stealing my thoughts again.
Thanks for wording them better than I could have.