This is not a thread to start religious debate - see the question

[Jake]

Hi everyone,

Went to a friend's funeral last week, he was just like me an atheist, and well, I was not too happy with the funeral home, he made arrangements with, they did not respect some of his demands (he asked for a total atheist service), but the family overthrown this and there were still some references to God and Jesus Christ. Now I didn't make a big fuzz about it, because obviously, he was a long time friend who died of cancer and we were all way too emotive to start principles fights, but that gave me an idea and I quickly started looking for it and I found out that there's no Atheist Based funeral homes in Canada or the USA for that matter - found one in the UK. I have spoken with some of my friends from the association I'm part of and we are doing research about it. Since I was here for a long time, I'm going to ask you guys what you think about it?

Be clear and straight to the point. I don't need an anthology on death business or religion. I'm asking your opinion on a specific close ended question. And ask any question if you have any.

[TwisttheLeaf]

I think that it's a great idea. I think there will be certain parts of the US (and probably Canada) where the community may have a HUGE issue with this, but overall? I think it's a good idea.

I personally have no problem with people preaching over my corpse, or ashes, after I die. I'll be dead after all. BUT, there are many that feel more passionate about this than I do, and it would probably fill a gap to have a venue for them.

[Jake]

Well, thanks Twist, the idea for me is to respect the decease wishes. Sure I'm going to be dead, but it's very specific in my will, I don't want to hear the name of Jesus Christ or any references to god or higher power when during my service. The ones who'll make sure of it are those whom respected my last wills and the legacy I've left. My friend asked for the very same, but the funeral home did not fully respect its last wills and accepted the money from the family to have a mass dedicated to him.

[Virge]

Jake, a similar situation happened here last year. An elderly atheist man died. His family and the funeral home changed his specific instructions for his funeral and burial in spite of his having talked to all of them about exactly what he wanted. They found out as soon the funeral was over.. that due to the way they'd ignored his wishes............ ALLLL of them including the funeral home were getting NOTHING from the burial insurance policies, his will, his estate, NOTHING. He wrote his will and final instructions to account for the possibility his children would not respect his wishes... so he left them graves he paid for and nothing else.

Maybe it's time to make sure everyone sets up their will that way... "don't follow the instructions I leave?...oh well! Joke's on your dummass!"

[Bowyn Aerrow]

Hi everyone,

Went to a friend's funeral last week, he was just like me an atheist, and well, I was not too happy with the funeral home, he made arrangements with, they did not respect some of his demands (he asked for a total atheist service), but the family overthrown this and there were still some references to God and Jesus Christ. Now I didn't make a big fuzz about it, because obviously, he was a long time friend who died of cancer and we were all way too emotive to start principles fights, but that gave me an idea and I quickly started looking for it and I found out that there's no Atheist Based funeral homes in Canada or the USA for that matter - found one in the UK. I have spoken with some of my friends from the association I'm part of and we are doing research about it. Since I was here for a long time, I'm going to ask you guys what you think about it?

Be clear and straight to the point. I don't need an anthology on death business or religion. I'm asking your opinion on a specific close ended question. And ask any question if you have any.

Jake, I have no idea how old you are, but the older you get the more you will find that the headstones thicken along the way.

And few people who die get what they want in the way of funeral and memorial service. And few of those funerals will be exactly honest or truthful about the deceased - they tell lies, lots of lies - most of them white lies about the deceased... but funerals are the last goodbye and are designed to let the survivors walk away feeling that the completion of life process is complete.

This year alone I have been to what, 6 funerals (or it is 7 now? I can't recall exactly - old age setting in I guess), but in each case the funeral was not about the dead person in casket or urn. The funerals were designed to ease the grief process for those who attend the funeral.

Funerals are to help the grief process of the survivors (family). Its not about the deceased, its about the survivors.

In this light do you get what happened? Do you understand why the funeral director relented?

I feel for you and your feeling that the deceased was somehow disrespected. This is way to common in funerals because directors cannot possibly please everyone at a funeral. They try to meet the needs of as many as possible.

One of our members is a funeral director/mortician he most likely can explain this way better than me.

Please don't take personal affront to this. It really wasn't about religion or lack there of, it was about giving the family the illusion of peace of mind.

[Pix]

My thought is the funerals are for the living, not the dead.

OTOH, it's not a very good way to respect someone's memory if they specifically asked for something else, and of course it seems likely that at least a few others who show up would also be atheists (and they're among the living).

I guess I just wouldn't be too bothered by a few religious nods thrown in (as long as they don't actually lie, that is "he was a good, heterosexual Christian" when he was neither het nor Christian), though I very much enjoyed (perhaps more than I should) that will that was able to punish those involved from beyond the grave.

[Jake]

Jake, I have no idea how old you are, but the older you get the more you will find that the headstones thicken along the way.

And few people who die get what they want in the way of funeral and memorial service. And few of those funerals will be exactly honest or truthful about the deceased - they tell lies, lots of lies - most of them white lies about the deceased... but funerals are the last goodbye and are designed to let the survivors walk away feeling that the completion of life process is complete.

This year alone I have been to what, 6 funerals (or it is 7 now? I can't recall exactly - old age setting in I guess), but in each case the funeral was not about the dead person in casket or urn. The funerals were designed to ease the grief process for those who attend the funeral.

Funerals are to help the grief process of the survivors (family). Its not about the deceased, its about the survivors.

In this light do you get what happened? Do you understand why the funeral director relented?

I feel for you and your feeling that the deceased was somehow disrespected. This is way to common in funerals because directors cannot possibly please everyone at a funeral. They try to meet the needs of as many as possible.

One of our members is a funeral director/mortician he most likely can explain this way better than me.

Please don't take personal affront to this. It really wasn't about religion or lack there of, it was about giving the family the illusion of peace of mind.

And why would i take offense BA you're about 10 years or so older than me I asked for opinions and all opinions is good in my sense, it's not a verbal competition and I do agree with you and Pix that funerals are for the survivors. I come from a very large family - well not me directly, but my dad is number 13 of 18 children, I have 75 direct cousins and even more distant cousins, lately they've started dying like flies.

The reason I ask is to find out if there's interest and what people think of it. I never enter a new project without studying it. As for myself per example I am an atheist and what's written in my wills cannot be overthrown, it's a heavy legal paper that has serious consequences if not followed. Now, will I care if they don't? NO i'll be feeding trees by their roots, but my survivors, the ones with power of attorney will follow through.

[Virge]

I should clarify something.

I'm not an atheist but I have more in common with them than I do with Christians. That sounds crazy right?
Let me explain and try to be brief about it.

Religions and specifically christianity put faith ahead of reason. That's why so many christians stay in constant conflict with science and even medicine (evolution, stem cell research, blood transfusions, organ transplants, {some of those are only in extremely crazy flavors of christianity]) Christianity has been known to be a myth from the day it began. In fact the more christians have tried to prove the complete historical accuracy of the bible the more they have proven just the opposite! <<(hold on and I'll back this up with things you can fact check)

How many of you have a working knowledge of that period known as either "The Age of Reason" or "The Age of Enlightenment" that happened in the 18th century? Do you know up until then most of the sciences didn't exist? Up until then science was devoted to and controlled by religion. Historians as we know them today did not exist because all history was controlled by religions and politics. Even the ancient "historians" didn't write history. They wrote what could best be described as propaganda for whoever was in power and paying them to write! They wrote things that are closer to the TV movies that start off with the words "based on a true story." << and if flip that over it really means, "not all of this is bullshit."

All of us know about the great scientist Isaac Newton and his theory on gravity -- calculus -- and so much else. We don't hear about huge amount of time and writing he did on how to make gold out of lead, catching ghosts in bottles, predicting the future, interpreting omens and finding hidden messages in the bible. That's what science was when he was alive.

Archeology didn't even exist until after the Age of Reason. Churches jumped on it to use this idea from scientists about digging things up to prove the past in order to start proving the bible to be what they had been telling people it was for 1800 years. The more they dug and revealed the past trying to authenticate the bible the more they proved it to be false. They tried to conceal much of what they discovered but it was only a matter of time before that bombed for them.

Facts> there was no man named Moses who was raised by an Egyptian princess who led Jews out of slavery in Egypt past a sea that parted, no ten commandments, no wandering in the desert, no guy named Noah who built an ark, no garden of Eden and so on and so on..... and christian scholars in the time before 500 knew this. These things have been established and re-established many times over through over 300 years of investigation by men who put REASON ahead of FAITH.

I put reason ahead of faith. I have faith in a god but for me God needs no proof. I don't feel compelled to convince other people to believe God exists and I despise seeing and hearing people who spend all their time trying to convince others their god does exist --- rather than live good lives by honest, admirable rules and ethics as the means of setting examples to teach others to do the same.

I show everyone my "faith" everyday by the way I treat them and the way I treat everyone. I don't preach or demand that anyone believes what I believe. I don't give a shit what others believe. All I try to do is set good examples, setting truth (reason) ahead of all else and do as much good on this earth as I possibly can. That's all. I just want to help those I can to find as much happiness and fulfillment in life as I feel.

I'm stopping here. This went on longer than it should have. Sorry.

Let me go find some christians to beat up with reason. hahahahhahhaha!

[CellarDweller]

My thought is the funerals are for the living, not the dead.

OTOH, it's not a very good way to respect someone's memory if they specifically asked for something else, and of course it seems likely that at least a few others who show up would also be atheists (and they're among the living).

I guess I just wouldn't be too bothered by a few religious nods thrown in (as long as they don't actually lie, that is "he was a good, heterosexual Christian" when he was neither het nor Christian), though I very much enjoyed (perhaps more than I should) that will that was able to punish those involved from beyond the grave.

I agree with Pix. Funerals and memorials are not about the dead, no matter how much we say they are. They are designed for the living to help them grieve and move on. No matter how much the deceased wants their service to be a certain way, those attending the service will bring their own beliefs and baggage to it.

While I'm not an atheist, I don't attend any services. That being said, I have no problem with someone talking about God and Jesus at my service, if it gives them some sort of comfort and peace.

Why would I care? At that point my problems are over.

[Bluelight]

Well, while I would say that the family was wrong to not respect your friend's wishes, I have to sympathize with them too because I think referencing Jesus and God was a way for them to cope with his death.

Anyway, I think atheist funeral homes are a great idea; everyone deserves to have their wishes respected.