ADDENDUM: (to "Not a Virgin Anymore")

[MikeW]

As some of you may recall, I recently had a couple of encounters with a MUCH younger guy, talked about in this thread: Not a Virgin Anymore. I could put this in that thread but I've decided to start a second one because of where that encounter has left me. I have some questions I want to hear thoughts and opinions on from you guys.

First of all, the guy has "disappeared." This isn't surprising, frankly. He deleted his account on the other forum and I have no way of contacting him directly. I'm not surprised (in fact I thought this would happen after the first encounter) because he is so young and because he is struggling with his own identity. I'm disappointed because I feel he needs support and *that* to me is more important than the sex. I told him that right up front and on-gong. But, for whatever reason, he's decided to not be in contact with me. He knows who I am, where I am and how to contact me if he wants to. Beyond that not much I can do.

So.. ONWARD:

Here's what is going on with me now and why I'm starting a second thread.

It has been so long since I've had *any* sexual contact with another human being AT ALL that this has reawakened the DESIRE to have sex again. I know this must be very strange to most of you who are younger and feel this way all the time. But I'd given up on the whole prospect. I never was very promiscuous. I'm not into hookups and really never have been. I have had relationships and outlived both of them. I'd basically just resigned myself to just jerking off to porn and being satisfied with that. Plus, I'm so old and set in my ways -- I'm not feeling like I want "companionship" or a capital R "Relationship," so much. What I'm noticing is that just jerking off to porn doesn't do it for me now. NOW I want to touch and be touched, to taste, to smell -- all the physical stuff. That DESIRE is now reawakened in me.

Now WTF to do??

I can't tell you how strange it is to feel this way after so long a time. I remember feeling this way a lot, like before I met my first partner or during the time between the first and the second --- and for a brief time after the second. For a couple years after the second and I broke up I did kind of 'put myself out there' and did meet a few guys. But it all just seemed SO much work and, TBH, at that time I wasn't really "ready".

In fact what i discovered was that I didn't "trust" myself. It would take too long to explain what I mean by that. But basically I was so wounded from the two relationships, especially the second which went very badly at the end, that I just didn't feel I could "trust myself" to know what was right for me. So, I just withdrew. Not only from having sex but from dating or even thinking about it. I just resigned myself to my sexual fantasies and jerking off.

But now… Now I'm feeling that 'desire' again. Like a balloon without a pin to pop on. It's not a BAD feeling, but it is a feeling that DESIRES something more than just fantasy. It wants something real, physical, alive.

If I were younger and felt better about myself, the way I look and so on… I'd get back in "the scene" one way or another. But being almost 70 years old, I'm a bit daunted. I'm not quite sure how to go about this.

If I could have what I want (at this point), it would be a sexy younger man in a FWB kind of relationship. By "younger" I certainly don't mean someone as young as the guy who contacted me and awakened these desires. Good lord! I knew that wasn't going to "go anywhere" and probably wouldn't continue.

All I mean by "younger" is someone I'm physically attracted to and that is generally men younger than I am. It is rare that I see someone who is my age or older that I find sexy. Occasionally but rare. But in terms of numbers, ages, "younger" encompasses decades. My last partner was 10 years younger -- he being 39 when we met. So, in other words, "younger" means anyone from 18 to 60! LOL!!! And, to be honest, I'd much prefer someone a bit more mature than 18, for heavens sake -- probably no younger than 40.

I don't wan to assign a number to it. All I mean is someone I find "sexy" -- someone who gets my "motor running." The exact age is irrelevant.

But for me it is like, now what?? I have a lot of things to attend to in my life. I have a job -- and I'm in the midst of educating myself to develop my own online business so I can continue to earn money for years to come. So this takes up a lot of my time. I'm not looking for a "relationship," just something more than "hooking up" (if possible). But, too, it would have to be someone who finds me as attractive as I find them… and there-in lies the problem.

I don't see myself as sexy. I'm old, I'm wrinkled, I have age spots, I'm hard of hearing, I'm cantankerous, I'm set in my ways. I'm not monied enough to "rent" anyone LOL! (Not sure how I'd feel about that in any case.)

So, I'm asking for ideas and opinions here. I live in a place of "abundance" so far as the sex scene is concerned. Good lord, there's even a Steam Works (NSFW) in my town! But as you can see (or would assume) most of the guys who do THAT kind of thing are a) in their 20s to 30s); b) more sexually experienced than I am (of late); c) and certainly NOT interested in an old man. I feel like I'd be a fool to put myself in that kind of situation. I'd be thought of as a desperate old man. And my ego doesn't need that kind of degradation.

There are apps like Grinder, Hornet and Scruff -- but a) I'm terrible at texting and b) again most of those guys wouldn't find me anything but CREEPY! And I don't blame them! Yesterday I actually found myself reading the Craig's List M4M (NSFW) adds :eek: , just to see what is out there. OMFG. I haven't done that in a very long time.

So, I duno… What do you guys think? I'm going to be at work most of today so won't be responsive for awhile. Just putting it out there to see what you guys think about this. Sorry it is so long. LOL! Crazy old guy!

[Camfer]

66 and asking how to meet guys! Love it. If you're not meeting guys in your normal routine, it's time to change up your routine.

-Sign up for a class.
-Attend some meetup.com events in your area
-Sign up for an elderhostel / Road Scholar trip
-join a new gym
-shop at different stores
-take a cooking class
-take a workshop
-start a new hobby
-invite friends over for a party, tell them to bring a friend
-ask your friends for introductions
-volunteer somewhere
-yes, even go to steamworks. You'd find all ages there, perhaps more so early than after the bars close

You may be less set in your ways than you think. People can grow and change all through life. You must kindle this spark that the boy awakened!

[LJay]

Keep 'em coming Camfer. I'm taking notes.

[jimcrackcorn]

Most of us who are at the upper end of the "age scale" are set-in-our-ways and would find it difficult to adjust to having a full time relationship with someone. I know that if my husband passed away or left me,,, I'd find it difficult to adjust to living with some one else full time. Hell, it's hard enough living with my cantankerous ole husband right now!!! and we've been together for ages and I'm thoroughly used to him.

There are thousands of gay men in the 50-80 age bracket that are seeking a relationship of some kind. The trouble is finding them and discerning which ones are compatible. You see many on Craigslist & dating sites but they seem like horny, sex-crazed individuals with kinky sexual desires.

Then you have the nicer older gentlemen who look at themselves in the mirror and see the age-spots, turkey neck, and sagging skin,,, and think no one wants them anymore because they are over-the-hill. These are the ones that are hardest to find because they have taken themselves off the market completely. They don't go to bars or participate in sporting activities. Hell,,, they don't even go bowling because those damned balls are so heavy that they end up loosing their balance and fall just as they're about to release the ball down the lane (been there, done that). These kindly older gentlemen are truly hard to find.

The best thing you can do is what Camfer mentioned, change up your routine and make yourself more visible. The more people you meet, the more chances you have. Networking with gay friends is a good idea.

My best wishes,
Jim

[palbert]

^^@jimcrackcorn: you forgot those with a cane, walker or scooter! (NOT me)

[Bowyn Aerrow]

"I'm not into hookups and really never have been."

Then I think you need to reexamine what it that has really awakened in you.

Let's examine your motivation for this comment:

"I'm disappointed because I feel he needs support and *that* to me is more important than the sex."

But you want 'just sex'? Honestly Mike, can you say you can have 'just sex' with a guy and not get attached, involved with his life and start caring for him on other levels than just the penis level?

========================================

"But basically I was so wounded from the two relationships..."

Since there is this past issue for you when it comes to relationships, I wonder if you actually ever dealt with that, or if you just decided to run away from dealing with and used other excuses to just keep yourself from being placed in the position of being in another relationship.

You are coming up with reasons to not get involved in a relationship. Old age, not wanting to put yourself out there, lack of whatever it is you THINK you lack.

If you were not all that and a bag of chips do you honestly think you could have snagged that cute young guy you recently had a fling with?

Nothing in your tale about this fella tells me you just had sex and didn't get attached. You got attached and started forming a relationship. You got involved with his life a bit more than just having sex with him, you got involved with his problems and troubles and are still on one level or another emotionally invested in him.

========================================

I have your other thread open in another tab and I see that your intention with this guy was not about just sex. Like it or not you were forming a relationship with him and got all emotionally connected with him.

Some quotes for you from you:

"It's nice that we're not just getting naked together but talking. "

"I want him to find himself. I want him to have all the fun he can stand! I want him to get comfortable with his sexuality and explore."

"If I can help him get outside his shell, maybe push his social envelope a bit so he feels more sure of himself and free to experiment and learn what he likes and doesn't"

Side bar query: Mentor much?

I suspect what has really awakened in you is more or less a desire to share your life with another human being. Sure Sex is all sexy and pleasurable and stuff - but I got a feeling that wanting to be with a warm body and have that intimacy is more or less a desire to really connect with a human being in a relationship sort of way.

Maybe marriage is not what you are seeking (at the moment), but it seems to me you connected with this guy and had real intimacy and sharing with him. This wasn't 'just sex' - this was more than that.

Side bar query: Seeking to mentor?

========================================

In conclusion:

I suspect there is a lot more going on for you right now Mike than just a sexual desire.

Sex tends to be the gateway drug to such horrors as long term relationships, marriage and other crazy situations which often end up ripping our heart out and throwing it to the floor and opening us up to a lot of hurt.

Perhaps you need to sit down with yourself and have that long conversation that basically starts with the question 'What do I really want here?'

[MikeW]

"I'm not into hookups and really never have been."

Then I think you need to reexamine what it that has really awakened in you.

Let's examine your motivation for this comment:

"I'm disappointed because I feel he needs support and *that* to me is more important than the sex."

But you want 'just sex'? Honestly Mike, can you say you can have 'just sex' with a guy and not get attached, involved with his life and start caring for him on other levels than just the penis level?

No, I cannot honestly say that. This is exactly why I've never been either particularly promiscuous or into hook-up type sex. I'm a bit of an empath and I tend to 'bond' easily, especially with younger men who are wounded or struggling. They don't even have to be gay. Over the years I've "mentored" or been "an ear" for a lot of guys, including many straight ones.

"But basically I was so wounded from the two relationships..."

Since there is this past issue for you when it comes to relationships, I wonder if you actually ever dealt with that, or if you just decided to run away from dealing with and used other excuses to just keep yourself from being placed in the position of being in another relationship.

I've lost a lot over the past decade, not just two relationships, way more than that. No, I've not "dealt with it" in therapy. In part due to financial resources, it is costly. In part because I've already had years of therapy and understand myself fairly well. Well enough to know that you're right, I haven't "dealt with it" the way you mean.

You are coming up with reasons to not get involved in a relationship. Old age, not wanting to put yourself out there, lack of whatever it is you THINK you lack.

If you were not all that and a bag of chips do you honestly think you could have snagged that cute young guy you recently had a fling with?

Did I snag him or did he snag me? He initiated contact and was persistent. For sure, given the opportunity I didn't say no!

Nothing in your tale about this fella tells me you just had sex and didn't get attached. You got attached and started forming a relationship. You got involved with his life a bit more than just having sex with him, you got involved with his problems and troubles and are still on one level or another emotionally invested in him.

I don't deny that. But again, this goes back to my "empathy" or whatever it is. But surely there are different *kinds* of relationships. I would have been happy to just meet the young man and talk about his life, what is going on with him. But that isn't what he wanted or asked for. He sort of went along with my questions and he even asked me about my life. We got to know one another a bit. That's why I'm not suppressed he "disappeared" (I was more surprised he contacted me a second time). I probably got more under his skin than he was comfortable with. But, of course, I don't really know. He's young and not exactly the verbal or overly "intellectual" type. On scholarship, nose to the grind-stone kind of guy, preppy business major who is curious about life 'on the wild side'. I was just a 'toe in the water' -- and now, who knows how he is reconciling *THAT* with the rest of his life.

So yeah, I am still "invested," in the sense that if he were to show up again and say, "Hey I really like talking with you but I don't want to be sexual anymore," that would be totally fine with me. I would even be ok with, "Man, you are one STRANGE old fart, no way do I want to hang with you any way shape or form!" At least I would feel there was some closure. But, like I say, I expected exactly this. This is what young men like him do. They aren't being mean or inconsiderate, they're just fickle and out of their depth.

I have your other thread open in another tab and I see that your intention with this guy was not about just sex. Like it or not you were forming a relationship with him and got all emotionally connected with him.

Some quotes for you from you:

"It's nice that we're not just getting naked together but talking. "

"I want him to find himself. I want him to have all the fun he can stand! I want him to get comfortable with his sexuality and explore."

"If I can help him get outside his shell, maybe push his social envelope a bit so he feels more sure of himself and free to experiment and learn what he likes and doesn't"

Side bar query: Mentor much?

Yeah, that's pretty much covered above.

I suspect what has really awakened in you is more or less a desire to share your life with another human being. Sure Sex is all sexy and pleasurable and stuff - but I got a feeling that wanting to be with a warm body and have that intimacy is more or less a desire to really connect with a human being in a relationship sort of way.

Maybe marriage is not what you are seeking (at the moment), but it seems to me you connected with this guy and had real intimacy and sharing with him. This wasn't 'just sex' - this was more than that.

Side bar query: Seeking to mentor?

Yes, that's why I said my ideal would be a FWB situation. We like each other well enough to hang out once in a while. Maybe go places and do things together occasionally. Companionship. But no way am I thinking about "living with," much less "falling in love with," another man. I assume FWBs are possible although I don't know, I've never done it. Like, it would be ok with me if he were in a relationship -- so long as his partner knew about it.

In conclusion:

I suspect there is a lot more going on for you right now Mike than just a sexual desire.

Sex tends to be the gateway drug to such horrors as long term relationships, marriage and other crazy situations which often end up ripping our heart out and throwing it to the floor and opening us up to a lot of hurt.

Yeah, that in a single colorful sentence is my last relationship in spades.

Perhaps you need to sit down with yourself and have that long conversation that basically starts with the question 'What do I really want here?'

This is why I opened this thread, its part of my questioning. Thank you very much Bowen for taking the time to reflect on this and write it all out! It is very helpful and interesting to think about.

[MikeW]

Most of us who are at the upper end of the "age scale" are set-in-our-ways and would find it difficult to adjust to having a full time relationship with someone. I know that if my husband passed away or left me,,, I'd find it difficult to adjust to living with some one else full time. Hell, it's hard enough living with my cantankerous ole husband right now!!! and we've been together for ages and I'm thoroughly used to him.

I do understand that!

There are thousands of gay men in the 50-80 age bracket that are seeking a relationship of some kind. The trouble is finding them and discerning which ones are compatible. You see many on Craigslist & dating sites but they seem like horny, sex-crazed individuals with kinky sexual desires.

That's what I would expect, yes.

Then you have the nicer older gentlemen who look at themselves in the mirror and see the age-spots, turkey neck, and sagging skin,,, and think no one wants them anymore because they are over-the-hill. These are the ones that are hardest to find because they have taken themselves off the market completely. They don't go to bars or participate in sporting activities. Hell,,, they don't even go bowling because those damned balls are so heavy that they end up loosing their balance and fall just as they're about to release the ball down the lane (been there, done that). These kindly older gentlemen are truly hard to find.

Being one myself, I know exactly what you mean. I *did* go bowling with an all gay Flesh Meet (IRL meet up) from the other forum some time ago. I didn't bowl but I hung out and met guys. There was some range of ages but the majority were younger.

The best thing you can do is what Camfer mentioned, change up your routine and make yourself more visible. The more people you meet, the more chances you have. Networking with gay friends is a good idea.

My best wishes,
Jim

Thanks Jim. I appreciate the thoughts and suggestions. It might help to know that I'm a triple Capricorn. It's said that if we stand in one place too long we grow roots. In other words, being as settled in my ways as I am "changing up my routine," isn't likely, LOL. Not impossible, but it would have to be FOCUSED.

IOW, what's the point of changing one's routine if it doesn't get one closer to one's aim or goal. That's the stickler.

[MikeW]

66 and asking how to meet guys! Love it. If you're not meeting guys in your normal routine, it's time to change up your routine.

-Sign up for a class.
-Attend some meetup.com events in your area
-Sign up for an elderhostel / Road Scholar trip
-join a new gym
-shop at different stores
-take a cooking class
-take a workshop
-start a new hobby
-invite friends over for a party, tell them to bring a friend
-ask your friends for introductions
-volunteer somewhere
-yes, even go to steamworks. You'd find all ages there, perhaps more so early than after the bars close

You may be less set in your ways than you think. People can grow and change all through life. You must kindle this spark that the boy awakened!

Thanks, Camfer, for the suggestions. But lets get REAL here, ok? What would be the point of "taking classes" or going to a "meet up" if there weren't going to be people there who were a) gay and b) potentially interested in someone my age? Sure, by being outside in the open air, the random chance of getting struck by lightening is increased. But, if you want to get thunderstruck, shouldn't you find out where the storms are? (What a weird fucking analogy :eek: but there it is.)

I don't have many friends any more, not that I could ask for introductions.

As for going to the Steam Works, well, I might consider it at some point -- but not just now. I've been there in years past so its not like I don't know what the atmosphere is like. Maybe what I should do for that is rent myself a walker just to put the icing on the cake.

[Camfer]

Well, MikeW, I think your 'realism' looks a bit like pessimism. You're in the bay area, it's hard to go down the street in your walker without tripping over a gay man! I think it's worth the risk of changing things up. You think it isn't likely to be someone for you in any of these situations. I'm not convinced, but anyway here's one that requires even more initiative on your part, but is sure to work.

It sounds like it needs to be more targeted for you, so here's how. Go to meetup.com and start your own meetup where you put exactly the demographic you want to meet. Is there a wrinkle bar* in berkeley? Post a meetup for at the local wrinkle bar or cafe for single gay men 50+ to meet and have a drink and to wear a particular color so you all know who's there for the meetup. Set it up for a recurring schedule, say 2nd and 4th Wednesdays of the month, at 7:00. That's late enough to be after the after-work crowd but early enough for people to be in bed at their normal time. Give it a fun name. Promote it online. You don't even have to tell the bar about it in advance. Then go to your event and meet the guys. Pick one or two and take 'em home. Wash rinse repeat.

Now, type up all your objections and figure out how to overcome them.

I knew a guy who outlived his first wife. in his 70s he went on an elderhostel trip and met a great woman in her 70s who'd outlived her first husband. They went on a bunch more elderhostel trips together. Eventually they got married. They had 12 great years together until she died. He kept living his active life, and eventually met himself another companion. At 86, he decided they'd just be companions and not get married this time around. He lived to be 94, just died this year.

If you make it to his age, you've got 28 years to enjoy yourself in new and interesting ways. Age is no barrier. Attitude can be a huge barrier.

*wrinkle bar: n. A bar frequented by gay men over 40.