ADDENDUM: (to "Not a Virgin Anymore")

[Virge]

Mike I'm reading all this about your "reawakening" and snickering -- but not at you --- but at the situation from my perspective I'm dealing with the other end of this situation. I'm friends with two guys close to my age who are strictly into older men.

And naturally with me being me, I'm trying to understand what makes them tick. They can't explain it other than say they aren't attracted to guys unless they're mature and I don't mean guys who'd fit the "daddy" role. One of them thinks my 89 year old grand dad is hot.

They're both above average looking, intelligent, pretty masculine and free from drama. For the most part both of them are done with gay people our age because they are so judgmental and plain nasty about the idea of young nice looking guys being attracted to older guys. For me it's really intriguing and something that doesn't get talked about at all.

Both of them are crushing on a gay friend of mine here who's probably older than you. He's met them but says he's glad to be done with sex --- which I know is a lie from the guys who come and stay at his house all the time.

If you want I'll pack one of these guys up and send him UPS.

[MikeW]

Mike I'm reading all this about your "reawakening" and snickering -- but not at you --- but at the situation from my perspective I'm dealing with the other end of this situation. I'm friends with two guys close to my age who are strictly into older men.

And naturally with me being me, I'm trying to understand what makes them tick. They can't explain it other than say they aren't attracted to guys unless they're mature and I don't mean guys who'd fit the "daddy" role. One of them thinks my 89 year old grand dad is hot.

They're both above average looking, intelligent, pretty masculine and free from drama. For the most part both of them are done with gay people our age because they are so judgmental and plain nasty about the idea of young nice looking guys being attracted to older guys. For me it's really intriguing and something that doesn't get talked about at all.

Both of them are crushing on a gay friend of mine here who's probably older than you. He's met them but says he's glad to be done with sex --- which I know is a lie from the guys who come and stay at his house all the time.

If you want I'll pack one of these guys up and send him UPS.

FedEx Overnight, dude!

Seriously, though, I wonder the same thing. In my first PM to the 18yo I wrote: "Why an 18 yo would be attracted to someone old enough to be his grandfather is a mystery my brain can't even begin to comprehend." "Older," (as in "older brother" or even "dad") I *can* understand. But what the hell can possibly be sexy about age spots and wrinkles? I just don't get it.

Maybe it is some kind of fetish. Which begs several question. What *is* a fetish? Why do we have them? Where do they come from? Does it matter? is my attraction to "younger" men also a "fetish"?

I've never been able to pin down what it is I find attractive. It isn't any one particular race. It isn't any one particular hair color or eye color. It isn't even any particular age in the number sense. I'm attracted to "youthfulness" -- which is somewhat vague. It has to do with attitude. Thomas, my second partner, though "only" 10 years younger, 39 when we met, was very youthful and embodied a lot of it.

I'm not quite sure how to explain that, even. It isn't that he looked a lot younger than he was. But he was in shape and fit (had been a yoga instructor). Very nice body, great ass and beautiful cock. What he could do with it was totally amazing, LOL! Very playful, funny, intelligent -- and he dug the hell out of me which was quite a turn on in itself.

Thomas was very promiscuous, the kind of gay man who easily separates emotion from sex. I was very attracted to that aspect of him. He was fascinated by the fact that I'd never had anonymous sex, never been to the Steam Works or even picked up anyone in a bar. Once we were living together, he sort of "mentored" me by making sure I got to *have* those kinds of experiences, with him playing "wing man". He actually got off on showing me the ropes, so to say. We had some *very* interesting experiences that way. But, at the same time, we didn't *need* that -- ours was a very passionate relationship and not just on the sexual level. Very difficult to explain what I mean. If I could write a novel about it, it would make one hell of a read.

Anyway, I duno. Its interesting how we (gay men) can be so much alike and still be so very different.

[Virge]

FedEx Overnight, dude!

Anyway, I duno. Its interesting how we (gay men) can be so much alike and still be so very different.

That last line says it all.
....... and I still meet str8s who think we all know each other just because we're labeled gay.

[MikeW]

Well, MikeW, I think your 'realism' looks a bit like pessimism. You're in the bay area, it's hard to go down the street in your walker without tripping over a gay man! I think it's worth the risk of changing things up. You think it isn't likely to be someone for you in any of these situations. I'm not convinced, but anyway here's one that requires even more initiative on your part, but is sure to work.

It sounds like it needs to be more targeted for you, so here's how. Go to meetup.com and start your own meetup where you put exactly the demographic you want to meet. Is there a wrinkle bar* in berkeley? Post a meetup for at the local wrinkle bar or cafe for single gay men 50+ to meet and have a drink and to wear a particular color so you all know who's there for the meetup. Set it up for a recurring schedule, say 2nd and 4th Wednesdays of the month, at 7:00. That's late enough to be after the after-work crowd but early enough for people to be in bed at their normal time. Give it a fun name. Promote it online. You don't even have to tell the bar about it in advance. Then go to your event and meet the guys. Pick one or two and take 'em home. Wash rinse repeat.

Now, type up all your objections and figure out how to overcome them.

I knew a guy who outlived his first wife. in his 70s he went on an elderhostel trip and met a great woman in her 70s who'd outlived her first husband. They went on a bunch more elderhostel trips together. Eventually they got married. They had 12 great years together until she died. He kept living his active life, and eventually met himself another companion. At 86, he decided they'd just be companions and not get married this time around. He lived to be 94, just died this year.

If you make it to his age, you've got 28 years to enjoy yourself in new and interesting ways. Age is no barrier. Attitude can be a huge barrier.

*wrinkle bar: n. A bar frequented by gay men over 40.

LOL -- like I needed THAT footnote! As if I've never heard of (or been in) what everyone calls "The Crystal Coffin" (Twin Peaks Tavern) right on the corner of 17th and Castro in SF:







I appreciate you taking the time to make all these suggestions, Camfer! I'm still debating what I'm going to "do" about any of this. For sure there is resistance, aka excuse making, but sort of like what BowenArrow was suggesting, I feel I need to consider what it is I *really* want. Maybe I don't *want* anyone over 50! Maybe I really *do* (for the time being, anyway) only or mostly want "just sex." Maybe not! Maybe I'm looking for something else and I need to define what that is for myself. I believe that clarity of intention enhances the probability of success.

And, true, gay men are everywhere here. Still, though, that doesn't mean much. Finding MUTUAL attraction is always difficult. I could (and will, just to do something) go to the Castro and see a thousand men walking around on the sidewalk -- all gay. How many of them will I find attractive? Conceivably a fairly high percentage. How many would find me attractive? Don't know how to put a number on it but certainly far fewer. And will we instantly recognize one another? Maybe. Maybe not.

As for bars, one of -- if not THE -- oldest gay bars in the US, The White Horse (established 1933), is about a mile away.

The thing is, I'm not a "bar" person. I don't drink. Well, very rarely. I don't like alcohol and I generally don't like being around people who are drinking. Yeah, I know, I can get a non-alcoholic drink but I'm still there within a 'bar culture' that is alien to me. I'm an introvert, I don't socialize easily or freely, I have tinnitus (constant ringing in the ears) so -- especially in a noisy environment like a bar or popular restaurant -- I can't understand a thing someone is saying to me.

Of course all these things can be seen as excuses, but they're also facts. Like a leopard who can't change his spots, its part of who I am. Yeah, for sure, I *can* do those kinds of things. But for me they are "work" -- effort -- not fun but rather off-putting and tedious. Again, I have to really figure out what I want and how badly I want it. That's what makes the difference in terms of deciding what I'm going to do.

[Camfer]

Yes, clarity on what you really want is step one.

The footnote wasn't actually for you, but for all your young 'uns daddy chasers who didn't know that wrinkle bars exist! Great pics of the quintessential wrinkle bar! I've walked past it a few times. Now that I'm 50 maybe it's time for me go to inside! My BF is 31 and he'd fit right in already.

An old leopard has a hard time changing his age spots! Getting a partner is work. Getting sex ain't much work.

You spend a lot of time on here mentoring the pups. I think you'd enjoy doing that in real life too.

I just wish you'd see better how desirable you are to many people! That young man was proof.

My post #1 works better for introverts. You'd be doing things with people rather than having to start up a conversation with little to go on. My scheme #2 works better for extroverts. Scheme #2 included doing it at a quiet cafe for the non-bar types.

Wishing you clarity, and then success in what you decide to seek!

[LEANDRONJ]

Mike I am in somewhat the same situation! only that it isn't me with the problem, but the guy I am currently dating! on our first date it was instant chemistry, so much so that he was a bit taken back on how much we have in common. That said even thou we are the same age, he is still dealing with a lot of issues from his two previous long term relationships. Like you he feels that he is too old to fall in love all over again! But I think he has put a lot of blockages to himself, as a way to not deal with the work that it takes to build a relationship, never mind a new relationship! I, too was hurt before, many times, but I learned that in order to keep myself young, I must not allow past relationships nor the passing of time (aging) impede me from my human birthright to love and be loved, just like anyone else at any age!

Mike do you know what is so beautiful at getting older? at least for me I've gotten wiser, more patient, and even sweeter! every passing year has being a blessing for me! the guy I am dating may well have some wrinkles showing, and other age related issues, but to me he meets the essential requirements at this stage in my life I am looking for. And guess what we are still courting each other, but every time we get together I find new things about him, and it feels magical!! and so I overlook his wrinkles, and see him for what he is!