New ISIS Beheadings . . . How long?

[Virge]

Of course, you're right, Virge.

Only you and your anointed have a clue about the topic, and your former active combatant status in a hostile country certainly had no effect on your objectivity.

We sit in awe of your supremacy of knowledge and your forbearance to tolerate the feeble babblings of the rest of us.

Thank goodness here you are here to put the rest of us straight, no matter how many condescending introductory phrases you throw out to make sure we know it is only out of our gross ignorance that we opine. And how wise to avoid reasoning with dissenters. What possible good could that do?

I'm so glad you're not a prick who dismisses everyone else who disagrees with you. How irksome that would be.

Thank you for taking the time to rebut everyone posting here. I'm sure it has taken away from your time sitting by the phone, waiting for the State Department to call and summon you to serve with your flawless insight. We know-nothings thank you for your generosity.

Now that you've expressed your indignation. Here's the only commenter here who has agreed with me.... remember him? But he's from Pakistan so he couldn't possibly know what he's talking about, could he?

Islam is religion of peace (come Pakistan to know how much true it is) its a big joke, do some criticism on Islam in front of a Muslim and get ready to be beheaded.
what to say about ISIS thinking, every other Muslim thinking is same to ISIS and they are praising their work. You can find many streets here (in Pak) having wall chaking for ISIS support.
I tried to post an image of such wall chalking but I couldn't I have to be 50 posts at least.

Here's Nonie Darwash formerly of Egypt. I suppose you know more about this subject than she does? http://www.c-span.org/video/?322098-1/qa-nonie-darwish

Here's a female Arabic psychologist on Arabic television... but your opinions are more valid than hers?

Here's a man who escaped Iran in the 1980s.... he must be lying, right?


Here's another woman debating a cleric. I guess you want to say he's right?

[Hardheaded1]

The reduction of the thread to for-or-against-Virge isn't a legitimate dichotomy. That you found a native of a Muslim country in a hotspot does not an irrefutable argument make.. Any of us can quote ad nauseum the muslims who do not see Islam as you have portrayed it. Any of us can cite the neighbors of muslims who do not experience the hostilities you see. Politics serve as a self-fulfilling prophecy. Science looks without prejudice. Politics only looks with prejudice.

What your posts did make was a hostile atmosphere, a sort of scorched earth campaign, with the flamethrower of "you're too stupid" spread out before you to burn off any ideas growing in the surrounding area.

There is room for views to be posted without it becoming a land war. Your view of Islam should stand on its own. After you've made your point, including the context of your military service and selective readings, your point is out there to stand on its own in the marketplace of ideas. Your harrying the opposition is akin to some electronics merchant in the bazaar following the customer down the street, badmouthing every other seller of wares. Let the shopper decide.

Dismissing the shopper as too ignorant to see the relative worth of your wares is a hard line that is counterproductive. Ultimately, it comes across very much like religious fundamentalism itself. Only the true believers are to be respected.

The topic has lots of room to cover many views. The readers are free to agree or not, sans deprecations.

[Virge]

Here's a long long long list of islamic attacks on gay people 50 nations. Maybe it will help you understand who you're defending.
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Persecution_of_Homosexuals

These guys might as well be holding up signs saying "jews and nazis UNITE! Stop all hate!



and by the way... I understand what you said about science but it doesn't apply to that wagon of ideology you're pulling. I know where you got it and it'd got to be getting heavy since last time I checked less than 35% of the western world is willing to help you pull it/

[palbert]

And now a segue into history

[Festino]

What is probably going to happend is that after some killing a land invasión will stop ISIS, probable a new country will be formes for the kurds.
I think islam is as evil as any other religión, sale people, different clothing.
BTW here is what i mean when i say súper powers should back down http://academic.evergreen.edu/g/grossmaz...tions.html

[Virge]

Festino... Thanks for the link! I bookmarked it for future use. Not to change the subject but if you run across a similar site with military actions by many nations other than the US I would like to have it. I used to have it and can't find it again. You'll be shocked when you see the long list for military interventions and invasions for many nations. Turkey (Ottoman Empire) is at the top of the list, even above the Roman Empire. France, England and and Germany were ahead of the USA.

Calling Islam evil is a value judgment that minimizes the real issue. Islam was typical "normal" for it's time when it began in the 7th century in that area of the world. The problem is that Islam cannot transform itself because according to Mohammed no word of the Quran or Haddiths can be changed, ignored or not followed. Even questioning the words of Mohammed is certain death. That condemns them to live within a 7th century world view, 1300 years behind the rest of us.

Just look at how Christianity has transformed and changed in the same period to understand this better... but that's not an endorsement about anything related to Christianity.

The only way to salvage Islam and help Muslims (most of whom are not at fault but are really victims) is to leave Islam with to options. Modify itself to become part of the 21st century or face extinction. Yes, that sound cruel but there are no other options except the ones politicians and diplomats have tried and tried and tried for longer than any of us have been alive... and look at what they've created.

[Festino]

Post me what options diplomats have tried, all i know is the west invading and violently dominating muslim countries
By the way, everyone keeps using some phrases like "21st century" or "western civilization", but i feel It may just be conformism on one viewpoint. This century (and It is only 14 years long) has seen more of the same: ecológica destruction human rights violation by cruel goverments and corporations and more enrichment. Tell me how many invasions have muslims launched against Cristián countries, how many cristians have died in hands of muslims and viceversa. Face It european countries and the us are more dangerous to humanty than islam and ISIS and irán

[Virge]

You can search for them as easily as I can. But any attempt to understand the middle east and Islam really starts before any western interventions in the middle east.
I can suggest one link that will give you a very accurate and unpolitical biased summary of life in the middle east before islam, and up through the life of Mohammed. It is FILLED with links for you to fact check and also it names places people and events you can also search for in order to get a deeper understanding. I warn you now >> much of what it in it will conflict with what you want to believe and what you have heard repeated and repeated and repeated. But it is the most reliable starting point I have found... the information it gives is based in fact, not myth, ideology or most of all "hate."
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/History.htm

You will need to know about the Islamic invasion of Spain that eventually spread into southern France. There are many histories of it that deal with the way society was set up concerning christians and jews.
You can read histories written by Muslims and Europeans about the wars in which Ferdinand and Isabella pushed islam out of Europe. You should easily be able to tell propaganda from truth.

Next you need to search for the events that led up to Genghis Khan sending his armies to exterminate all muslims and you will see how little has changed in the way Islam behaves after 800 years. You will find two very conflicting versions of this... one written by Muslims about their greatest enemy of all time and one written by historians with no love or hate for Genghis Khan or Islam. Had Genghis lived 3 more years Islam might have ceased to exist.

Just a few years after the armies of Genghis left the Ottomans moved into power and took over the middle east. Find links on what happened after the rise of the Ottoman Empire including the events that led up to the first crusades as well as the history of the crusades. The Ottoman attempts to overtake Europe and the Battle of Vienna where they were finally defeated.

The problem with the 600+ years of rule by the oppressive Ottoman Empire is that it erased all concepts of nations in that area. Add to that the fact that Islam is born put of 7th century bedouin tribalism there was no way to form nations that could govern themselves except by 7th century tribal conflicts and feuds. The next big problems started after the 1st world war when the empire was dead and European diplomats were trying to deal with Islam on western terms without any deep understanding of it.

AND once you've gotten some of this background information you'll be able to better understand the events in the 20th century concerning the middle east and western diplomats... who have all failed in establishing order, stable democratic governments, human rights, or any peace in tribal hostilities. All western diplomats have failed to try to understand islam for what it is as they attempted to push western values and ideals.

I'm sorry I cannot be of more help at the moment but I have to devote some time to studying for school as well as many other things that require my time. I will check back to read what you say.

Here's a link to the first military conflict between the USA and islamic nations. When you read what caused it you will see how little islam has changed in the past 200 years... hostages, ransom and extortion. During this time US Marines became known as "leathernecks" because of the big leather collars they wore to keep from being beheaded when US ships were attacked by muslims in open waters. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Barbary_War

[Festino]

I know history man, but you cant justify modern war for something that happened a thousand years ago, btw it would be nice to remember that muslim countries couldnt evolve into "modern" more secular societies because they were opresed either by otomans, british, french or wathever. Please stop using the 7th century jihad as an argument or at least concede that It was the last purely religous war fought by muslims, after that (just like the barbary wars) muslim governors became more interested in gold than piety. See It is not a matter of faith, It is a matter of greed. Like modern day ocupation of Gaza, It isnt because jewish fanátics claim the land, sure they claim it, but the power behind them cares only of dollars and weapons sold.
And man ALL religions start with some crazy weirdo claiming to be the prophet (hence im an atheist) sure mohamad was a pedo and all they claim him to be, but so was gandhi and a lot of other people, look it isnt about what they did in the 7th century, it is about what was done to them and continúes to be done so that they dont leave the 7th century. I mean iraq and irán were headed into modernity but then COLD WAR and foreign interest put dictators in place that made good old fashion tribal islam look good.

[Hardheaded1]

Here's a long long long list of islamic attacks on gay people 50 nations. Maybe it will help you understand who you're defending.

No region, no religion, nor nationality has any exclusive claim on homophobia. If one were to watch movies and TV in the US, one would surmise that the area between NYC and LA was merely one big blighted wasteland of Fundamentalists and gay-haters. It ain't so, is it?

It's always easier to buy into the reduced caricatures of those whom we oppose and denigrate.

When keeping up with gay beatings in the US over the last couple of years, they have erupted in NY, and the Northeast, hardly the Bible Belt. But guess what? With several hundred million Americans, there is room for bigotry to erupt anywhere, and it does.

That I am intimately familiar with Christianity and understand its contributions, crimes, and failings, means I'm not quick to allow any belief system to be branded with some singular litmus test, like sexual equality, environmental responsibility, animal rights, or whatever. Islam is more complex. just as most institutions are.

Malaysia does not look like Iran. Pakistan does not look like North Africa.