Trans confusion

[TonyAndonuts]

So I ended up getting into a conversation with a friend about the LGBT. I never really got his perspective on it before, but I figured he wasn't all that interested in it. Through the conversation, I was happy to learn that he was supportive of gays and lesbians. However, he did say that he doesn't get trans people. I basically explained that some people don't feel like they identify with the sex they were given and wish to identify as something else, but that didn't make sense to him.

He explained that he understands and supports gays and lesbians because their sexual identity is something that's determined at birth or early infancy. It's something that's just apart of them and they can't control it. So the process of coming out is basically accepting that part of yourself and embracing it. However, he feels like trans people are the exact opposite. Instead of accepting and embracing the sex that was given to them at birth, they want to change it through unnatural means like surgery. He compared it to someone who gets breast implants or something because they don't like how they naturally look and I guess that's something he can't get behind. He also mentioned that he understands a man who acts feminine and does feminine things because that's just something that he enjoys, but doesn't understand going as far as genuinely believing that they're female. To him, it's like someone believing they're a cat when they're not.

At the time, I didn't have a good enough response because I honestly don't know much about trans people either. I was wondering what you guys might think. Does he have a point or is there something he's not getting? I'm curious too.

[East]

I had a very hard time understanding myself...and to a certain extent I still have a hard time but not as much....

Accepting it is much easier than understanding for me...

How I finally came to understand it on one level at least was when I equated it with a Dorothy Hamil commercial from the 70s LOL...seriously...

She was talking about how doctors finally recognized PMS after years of research and after explaining (sarcastically) now that they say it is real...it is real...and that they could have saved their time because all they had to do was ask her.....

...and that is what I think about transsexual people. I accept that they know more about their bodies and themselves than I or anyone else does so I take them at their word...

I am not sure I will ever completely understand it...but I don't think we need to understand everything in life anyway. I will settle for what I do understand...that they are people worthy of respect and if they say they are in the wrong body...good enough for me.

I am not sure if that helps or not...that's the best I have. Maybe someone else can be more specific about it.

[Rareboy]

He doesn't have a point.

Sexual identity isn't just genitalia. It is much more complex.

Your friend doesn't get it because he obviously doesn't read. Or he doesn't want to get it.

Do some on-line research on this yourself and then share the source articles that will provide him and you with much more knowledge and empathy.

[Camfer]

If you have the understanding that someone's sexual identity is determined at birth or early infancy, then what is the difficulty in understanding that someone's gender identity is determined in the same manner?

[spencer]

The body can be altered but the brain cannot. Also, there is a fascinating documentary I wish I remembered the title about a man born in the 70's. He was circumcised and they using a different technique and ended up mutilating his penis. As a result, they decided to raise him as female. He spent years going to therapy trying to convince him that he was female. He firmly believed he was male and ended up killing himself over it.

On that note the suicide rate of trans people is pretty much about 50%. GLAAD has it listed as about 40%ish but that number is probably low because that doesn't account for people who know one knew was trans and killed themselves. I tried to live happily as female and it was simply impossible.

Gender identity also does occur I believe in the third trimester of pregnancy? There is something called a hormone wash that determines the sex and sometimes things happen where the brain won't match up with the physical body.

Also not everyone needs surgeries or hormones. So being trans doesn't mean you want to physically alter your body. I am content with hormones and top surgery. My vagina doesn't make me female or any less male. It makes me merely a person with a vag.

His beliefs are clearly coming from a person who has never attempted to educate himself on the subject and his arguments are incredibly faulty. If someone was to torture and murder me for being trans my state will NOT recognize it as a hate crime. This isn't something I really fear happening especially since I'm trans male but it is something that DOES happen especially to trans women and especially especially trans women of color.

Why would any put their lives at stake like that when they can simply live happily as their assigned gender? On top of that most places are completely within their legal rights to discriminate against me for being trans.

On top of that making a transition, is REALLY expensive. Hormones cost me on average 10$ a month which is the lowest I can obtain them plus giving myself a shot every week is about 50 cents a week for needle and syringe. Yeah that actually is pretty cheap but as a college student I did have to go without for a while when I was hit with a pretty nasty financial crisis. The real doozy is the 6500$ I spent to have my breasts removed. I saved about 500$ a month for about a year, a little less for a short time prior to that. This meant that for almost 2 years I didn't go out. I didn't go do fun things with my friends. I didn't buy new clothes, shoes or fun things. I just worked and saved. Who would do that if they didn't have to? Oh and that 6500$ didn't account for travel and room expenses. That was an additional 1000$. I also had to accept no more feeling in my nipples. But that was better than having breasts.

So there's some ammo for you in case you encounter a situation like that again. :3

And for what it's worth, I don't expect anyone to understand. Explaining a concept like this is really difficult to do. So I don't need anyone to totally understand or to be able to empathize how I feel. I only ask that people just be respectful and trust me to know who I am. Pretty much until someone has lived as me they have no grounds for telling me who I am and who I should be.

PS I really appreciate non-trans people being supportive and making attempts to educate themselves and others too. <3

[xfrostx]

I've actually encountered people similar to your friend and my best argument against them is "What if you were in a female/male body? how would you feel if people thought you're disgusting for wanting to be yourself?". The thing he says about wanting to be a cat is really stupid too, just like if you're gay then you're a pedophile. It's just none sense! Just ask your friend who in their right minds would want to be hated by so many people and state they're trans? I can't imagine anyone doing it except for money and fame, but that's completely different.

[ShiftyNJ]

I have worked with a number of trans-identifying folks for the past ten years or so and hearing their stories has helped me get my head around it. When I teach about this in the churches now I encourage people to think of affectional orientation (I like this word vs. sexual because not all attraction is sexual) and gender identity as two intersecting lines. Neither is a binary either/or: as uncomfortable as that makes some people, if they thought about it, they have masculine and feminine aspects of their personality, and they feel drawn to people - for various reasons - of different gender identities whether they are aware of it (or willing to admit it) or not. Where those two lines intersect is different for everybody, and where/how they find themselves may change over their lifetime, or not.
[MENTION=15995]spencer[/MENTION] as far as I have seen, the percentage of trans-identifying folks who have genital surgery is in the minority, probably for many of the reasons you cited. But where they are on that journey, and whether they plan to or not, does not change their identity as trans if they choose to embrace it. There are also folks who feel once they have done so, they are no longer trans and don't identify as such. That makes some in the trans community angry, but I still feel it is their right. Labels should be chosen, not imposed on us.

[Arkansota]

Being trans is being born with a body that is the opposite gender of your brain. That's what causes the issues- The brain is what determines gender identity and that's why HRT is necessary.

[TonyAndonuts]

I guess I was under the impression (and probably my friend too) that gender was just a social concept that mankind created. Like, a man/woman should act a certain way, do certain things, like certain things, etc. I didn't know gender identity was a whole other thing that could be determined at birth or very early on like sexual orientation. I hope I don't sound too stupid :/

[Rareboy]

^ No you aren't stupid...just uneducated in this area of human behaviour. But now you can do some reading and research and help your friend understand this better while developing a more informed approach yourself.

win. win.