Spiritual Influences

[East]

I really was not joking, East. (for once) The SSRI's seem to prevent me from much deep contact with many things, among them, music, which is to me a profound path. Our age may indeed be influenced as you say.

Have we found a way to keep entire societies from mystery?

I know you aren't joking...I experienced it myself which is why I don't take them. I would rather have bouts of depression and highs/lows than take the zombie medication though I wouldn't advocate anyone else follow in my footsteps.

For me...fresh food with no GMO is the key to my being able to function relatively well...and I also have enough psychological tools that when the depression hits it is no longer severe enough to warrant medication. I also exercise which helps a lot....

I think the crap they put in the food altered our brain/body chemistry and the food industry damn sure will never acknowledge it...look how hard they fight just labeling food so consumers can make informed choices....and the Fox News crowd eats this shit up...calling it "government control"...UGH....it's why I don't like to argue with them anymore....it's pointless.

[meridannight]

i'm spiritually-challenged.

unless you count deep-felt and profound awe, and near-philosophical adulation of masculine beauty and character as spirituality. then i could go on for pages. the only times i've ever come close to a spiritual experience is in the manner i've connected with some guys in my life.

[MikeW]

...unless you count deep-felt and profound awe, and near-philosophical adulation of masculine beauty and character as spirituality. then i could go on for pages. the only times i've ever come close to a spiritual experience is in the manner i've connected with some guys in my life.

Actually, I do count that. Quite seriously.

There is something about the male form that gets connected with deep, intense psychic and "spiritual" energies.

Our western notions of the ideal male figure have been greatly influenced by Apolonian…



not to mention Adonisan…



and Dionysian…



representations of "the gods".

Phallus worship apparently dates back to pre-history. The cartoon like exaggerations of Priapus don't awe me so much as the more classical phallic columns of Delos…



And is, to my mind, a sexualized "symbol" of the Axis Mundi…



Which is a cosmic (as above) representation of the "Kundalini" energy that rises when the Chakaras (so below) are in harmony...



The Caduceus, with its intwined serpents (talk about a homoerotic symbol!), appears to be a more "western" representation of this esoteric archetype.

It is interesting to me, as well, that this corresponds with the double helix of DNA -- and the ancient notion of a "stairway to heaven" (that is, higher consciousness and awareness).



It seems that SEXUALITY is deeply rooted not only in human experience and consciousness but the whole of the cosmos.

In fact, one of, if not THE most ancient figures of rock art that we have (estimated to be around 37,000 years old), appears to be a representation of genitalia. Although archeologists postulate that it is "female" I think it could be argued just as easily that it is a Axis Mundi: The phallus holding up the dome of heaven. To me, at this deep level of human consciousness, to even think of these things in terms of male/female just misses the point. They are representations of cosmic, "spiritual," unity.

[East]

i'm spiritually-challenged.

unless you count deep-felt and profound awe, and near-philosophical adulation of masculine beauty and character as spirituality. then i could go on for pages. the only times i've ever come close to a spiritual experience is in the manner i've connected with some guys in my life.

It definitely qualifies....
[MENTION=20947]MikeW[/MENTION]...interesting insight

[BlueStar]

I will answer this later, when I have more time. You might find my thoughts interesting... or maybe not.

[Bowyn Aerrow]

The hardest pill to swallow was when I discovered that many if not all of my 'spiritual' encounters were merely epileptic seizures.

I have come to the conclusion that most 'spiritual' encounters take place in the head and are a symptom of something wrong with the brain, either chemically or it firing out of sequence or something.

[MikeW]

The hardest pill to swallow was when I discovered that many if not all of my 'spiritual' encounters were merely epileptic seizures.

I have come to the conclusion that most 'spiritual' encounters take place in the head and are a symptom of something wrong with the brain, either chemically or it firing out of sequence or something.

Oh dear, really? :eek:

I don't know, that's quite a broad statement that I'd enjoy investigating more deeply with you. I haven't the time ATM, sorry to say. I'm trying to think quickly how to suggest an alternative POV… Something along the lines of the way our perception of reality is a construct within the brain -- but what if (I love "what ifs") that construct is inaccurate or incomplete and *needs* in some sense to be "broken" or "altered" for something 'else' -- perhaps something 'more' -- to appear?

[ShiftyNJ]

I agree. I think so many people grew so tired of organized religion trying to define EVERYTHING for them that we categorically reject some terms....but I am a bit of a pitbull when it comes to letting anyone else define anything for me so I don't let them have the word...but I am aware when I use it what kind of images it presents.



Fascinating...I want to read more...I agree with the statement in red....I have experienced this...

I just finished reading an essay from Diana Butler Bass's book The Christianity After Religion: End of Church and the Birth of a New Spiritual Awakening and now I can't wait to read the whole book. I have heard clergy talk dismissively about those who define themselves as "spiritual but not religious" because--in their minds--it is not possible without the structure and community that organized religion brings. Bass talked about the kind of attuning we're discussing here, how it can be fleeting and situational but no less profound than for someone who is immersed in a religious life.

My dude and I are currently in a bit of spiritual wilderness after two bad church experiences in a row; he is burying himself in his work and not thinking about it much, but I am going through a whole lot of processing and digging, trying to figure out what is next... an extended Lent experience I guess.

[Bowyn Aerrow]

Oh dear, really? :eek:

I don't know, that's quite a broad statement that I'd enjoy investigating more deeply with you. I haven't the time ATM, sorry to say. I'm trying to think quickly how to suggest an alternative POV… Something along the lines of the way our perception of reality is a construct within the brain -- but what if (I love "what ifs") that construct is inaccurate or incomplete and *needs* in some sense to be "broken" or "altered" for something 'else' -- perhaps something 'more' -- to appear?

Older and Ancient Cultures did view epilepsy as a form of 'spiritual contact' with the other side. A few considered it demon possession.

Various cultures specifically picked their epileptics to be the spiritual go between between this world and the other. Shamans in many cultures have been known to have various forms of epilepsy and would purposefully go out to induce a seizure.

Today science knows that things like 'auras' (typically the onset of a seizure that presents differently with different individuals) can have spiritual/religious aspects to it. De javu happens a lot for epileptics, I personally have days where the whole day is just one big happy deja-vu. Prior to being diagnosed I thought I was something special, connected with 'the other world' - nope, not special, just brain damaged. :tongue:

Stress, lack of sleep, long fasting, these sorts of things can induce a seizure - so can flickering light. We find in some cultures spirit walks, fasting, going without sleep and staring at the flickering flame of a candle or oil lamp was used to induce 'trance-like' states which in the case of petitmal or absence seizures can lead to 'visions' and 'hallucinations'.

While I don't purposefully do it, I have accidentally been able to trigger a sustained aura and it not ending in a grandmal. My auras are complex sensory and 'extra-sensory' perceptions which prior to my understanding I had epilepsy could easily be considered a religious or spiritual experience.

I'm not refuting your 'what if.' Apparently many others though something similar, that the ability to have a seizure is an ability to connect with the spirit realm and isn't so much an illness as a gift.

Perhaps it is a 'gift' of sorts. But then I am a doubting Thomas and struggle with my relationship with God and the spiritual aspects of faith. I have yet to find a way to balance out the world I see with the concept of a higher power.

[MikeW]

Older and Ancient Cultures did view epilepsy as a form of 'spiritual contact' with the other side. A few considered it demon possession.

Various cultures specifically picked their epileptics to be the spiritual go between between this world and the other. Shamans in many cultures have been known to have various forms of epilepsy and would purposefully go out to induce a seizure. ...

Again, I wish I had more time. Lots going on IRL at the moment which makes lengthy discourse difficult. However, I feel this is an important conversation I don't wan to loose the opportunity of addressing. It just may have to be much more brief than I would like for the time being…

Yes, I'm aware of what you're saying above… What I want to point toward is something else… but it is very difficult to find just the right words to communicate my thought.

Part of what I'm reacting to are the diminutive words bolded in your previous post…

The hardest pill to swallow was when I discovered that many if not all of my 'spiritual' encounters were merely epileptic seizures.

I have come to the conclusion that most 'spiritual' encounters take place in the head and are a symptom of something wrong with the brain, either chemically or it firing out of sequence or something.

Obviously epilepsy is "something 'wrong' with the brain"… but hopefully you'll agree that many people have "something wrong with the brain" that does NOT translate into "spiritual experiences." Similarly, perhaps, I have taken LSD many, many times in my life and, through these experiences of deliberately "disturbing the brain"'s 'normal' functioning I, too have had "spiritual" experiences. (I also had them frequently as a child, but am not epileptic… but bare with me.) The thing is, not *every* LSD experience becomes truly "spiritual" … and in my experience guiding others on psychedelic journeys, I've observed the same phenomena. To wit, a "disturbance of the brain" does NOT necessarily translate into a "spiritual" experience.

So… what do we mean by "spiritual experience"? It isn't ONLY a disturbance of "normal" brain function. I'm inclined to say it is something else, something 'more', and it is at this point we run into the limitations of our ordinary language. There can be an experience of the ineffable -- a sense of profound wonder and awe; perhaps as well a sense of being "one with" the cosmos (or at least parts of it). This *meaningfulness* to my way of thinking is NOT a "disturbance in the brain". I wonder if you see what I'm trying to point toward. MEANING is (I don't mean definition, and I don't mean simple symbol correspondence) what, exactly? How is it that we *can* have "meaningful" experiences that go beyond our ordinary ego-centered reality of a limited self?

I'm saying there is much here to be discussed. I'm in a hurry and not thinking this through but, hopefully, this may become a fruitful conversation nonetheless.