this is just infuriating.

[havikryan]

Well OP...it could be that they have just moved on to someone else...or that they were looking for someone at a deeper level than 'watcha doin'?' or 'how's it goin'?'

The fact is....in order to engage people you need to be a good listener and to share on a deeper level.

I suspect that you are looking for more out of technology and interwebz interactions than most people are capable of giving. For instance, as soon as I start an exchange with someone on-line, if they have sloppy spelling and grammar, or, heaven forbid, if they start communicating in txtspk...I am out of there.

Likewise, if they seem to only focus on dull things....or seem emotionally immature, my mind clicks off.

I would encourage you to make more attempts at meeting people in the real world in order to interact with them and overcome your shyness as much as possible. It will also help you, as an autistic young adult, to hone your skills in social interaction.

Beste!

I've never had any friends and was always either bullied or ignored on every school so never had the opportunity to be social, to this day I'm still shy and insecure to afraid to talk to someone and I just can't randomly walk up to someone and try to have a conversation.

I've been to a gaybar before but was so overwhelmed it felt like my head was going to explode and just wanted to punch my own head.

In general I'm just scared to death talking to someone for the first time and I have no idea why

[Borg69]

I've never had any friends and was always either bullied or ignored on every school so never had the opportunity to be social, to this day I'm still shy and insecure to afraid to talk to someone and I just can't randomly walk up to someone and try to have a conversation.

I've been to a gaybar before but was so overwhelmed it felt like my head was going to explode and just wanted to punch my own head.

In general I'm just scared to death talking to someone for the first time and I have no idea why

That's easy...!!!

FEAR. Fear of rejection. Fear of looking stupid. Fear of embarrassing yourself. Fear of insulting the other person. Fear of not measuring up to their standards.

... and lack of practice. Conversation in and of itself is an art. Being stimulating. Engaging. Interesting. Informative. Throw on top of that, you also need to LISTEN. Take cues from the other person's actions, reactions, facial expressions, what they say and how they say it, and learn to intuitively let that lead your conversation's direction in other more engaging paths.

Then... you throw on top of all that all the nuances of FLIRTING !!!

Today's "kids" have a limited attention span. First impressions are everything. If you're not "Wowing" them in the first few texts, you're going to lose them.

It just takes practice... I for one HATE idle "how's the weather" chit chat, and probably because of my age I HATE abbreviated text speak. If your conversations consist of:

Sup' ? How'r U? HOT. How Big? Horny? ... I'm going to lose interest REALLY fast.

... and ... I looked at your profile. I think it's AWESOME you love animals. I really do... However - I'd be looking at those sites to find a friend/BF. Not a Zoo. The animals might be a turn off to some people whom worry about allergies, mess, smell, ... You might mention you have/like animals, but break them in slowly. They want to see YOU. Not whom they're going to be fighting for a spot on your bed with.

[MikeW]

if that's the case at the very least it'd be nice to know instead of him just ignoring me.

... thank you for the offer though, probably wouldn't be good enough for him and doubt we'd have much in common...

I've never had any friends and was always either bullied or ignored on every school so never had the opportunity to be social, to this day I'm still shy and insecure to afraid to talk to someone and I just can't randomly walk up to someone and try to have a conversation.

I've been to a gaybar before but was so overwhelmed it felt like my head was going to explode and just wanted to punch my own head.

In general I'm just scared to death talking to someone for the first time and I have no idea why

First of all, I've been participating in gay forums for a long time and what you're saying -- the frustration of getting ignored on dating apps and sites -- is *very* common. ESPECIALLY if you don't look more or less like this…


or this…



IOW… if you don't somehow ooze or exude "sex appeal." This is not to say that dudes who look or act like that don't *also* get blocked or ignored at times… they do. The thing is, they just don't give a shit. And with an app/text connection it is EASY to just ignore people, right? There are no consequences for the person doing the ignoring. No sweat off their balls if you're eating your own face because someone you don't even know just gives up on you because a) you're not looking or acting or txting sexy and b) you want to waste their time making small talk about such mundane things as what they're doing today. * B O R I N G *

So here's the deal… (so far as I can make out)… You have to be clear in yourself about what you want *AND* you have to be willing to work on yourself to *get* what you want.

For example, if what you're looking for is to find a cute guy to mess around with sexually, then you need to be clear in yourself about that. That's what you want and there's nothing wrong with it… perfectly fine. So, you set your profile up to do whatever it takes to put that out there. You get into your own 'sexyness' and express that in words and images of yourself. Voila, every other boy who is looking for the same thing will suddenly be more interested in you. (That does *not* mean your life will suddenly transform into it being everything you want, but lets not get ahead of ourselves…)

Or, if what you're really looking for is on-line friends and pen-pals (like I do), you approach it very differently. You don't limit yourself to an age preference (for example) because someone who is just a friend, someone you can chat with and just write emails back and forth, talking about whatever -- what differences does it make whether or not you a) find them sexy or b) how old they are? I am online friends with a lot of guys and they range in age from teens on up. Some of them I correspond with almost daily. Some a lot less frequent. The Denmark guy I mentioned and I met online, I duno, about 8 or 9 years ago IIRC (I think he was 16 at the time). Months can go by and we don't chat but then we'll run into one another on Facebook or Skype and have a chat. We're online buddies -- nothing sexual about it.

So, that's the first question… what do you want? What are you looking for? If you think you're looking for a "relationship" or a boyfriend… well, I gotta ask, how are you going to do *that* if you're so painfully shy, socially awkward *and* so easily dissuaded or put off when guys ignore you? Seriously give that some thought. How is that gong to work?

I hope you don't take offense at what I'm saying or the way I'm saying it. I'm just being honest with you, telling you how I see it and I'm doing it to, hopefully, be of some real help to you.

But what you have to understand is, getting what you want in life -- whatever it is -- is something you have to learn how to do, something you have to really focus on. It isn't up to anyone else, not me, not some random guy you say "hi" to on a social site or w/e, to make you happy and feel more complete, more self-assured, and so on. << What I'm saying right there is perhaps THE BIGGEST CLUE I know how to give any young man who is in your situation.

I'll come back to that point in a minute…

But first I just want to give you an example. I'm in almost daily contact (and have been for going on a year now) with a British lad who is in his mid 20s who is like you in a lot of ways. He was always complaining how people ignored him and how he was bullied as a kid and had no friends, etc. At the time we met on another forum he had never even *kissed* anyone, boy or girl. This was a HUGE deal in his mind because he had himself convinced that, having never done *anything,* NO ONE would be interested in EVER doing anything with him.

Interestingly, not long after we met online, he *did* meet a guy through an app and started going out with him -- seeing him off and on for about a month. Soon he and the guy he met had done lots of things besides just kiss, LOL! BUT… and this is where it gets problematic… it turns out the other guy just wasn't *THAT* interested in my friend. Yeah, he was good for getting together and messing around… but my friend began to want more, want something more like a relationship, began to get upset whenever this guy didn't txt him back as soon as he thought he should, began to feel jealous of him dating other guys, began to feel clingy and insecure and so on. Well, pretty soon this guy he was seeing just told him, "look, I like you and all but I think you're more into me than I'm into you and I just don't want to be tied down like that, so, I don't think we should see one another any more."

Well, as you can imagine, my friend was devastated. This was the first guy he'd ever had any kind of thing going on with… his first *everything* (date, kiss, sex, etc)… and so of course he'd developed a strong crush on this guy. Moreover, now he was back right where he was before only worse off in a way because NOW he knew what he'd been missing!

So, returning the focus back to you… Yeah, you're right, it would be nice if the guys who ignore you gave you some clue WHY they are ignoring you. Like with my friend, the guy he was seeing just didn't disappear on him, he actually told him why he was moving on. BUT as you can see, it didn't make a lot of difference to my friend. He was still messed up because of it -- and still has a LOT of issues relating to people both online and IRL. His meeting this guy and having experiences did NOT change his situation and actually in some ways made it more difficult.

So… what is the bottom line here?

You've come to this forum complaining about being frustrated (indeed, "infuriated") with the way you're being ignored online by guys. You've come to us to vent about it and ask advice ("what am I doing wrong? because this is infuriating and just want to give up all together…"). And here I am taking a lot of time to write a very lengthy reply because 1) I'm familiar with this pattern and 2) I'd *like* to be of some help to you if I can but 3) I know bottom line this is something YOU are going to have to deal with. Neither I nor anyone else in the world can FIX your problem for you… not even a boyfriend!

I feel for you. I empathize with you. In many ways I was just like you when I was your age. I was terribly uncomfortable in my own skin. I felt socially awkward and *especially so* in "gay" situations (like in a gay bar) or whenever I was around most (not all) other gay people. Since this was way back long before the internet existed, this was all IRL, not online. I'd see someone I was attracted to but over and over and over again, they weren't interested in me. Worse, a lot of guys who WERE attracted to me, I wasn't attracted to them (they were usually old and creepy)! Worse yet, I was often getting crushes on straight guys and that was a total no-win situation.

FOR ME… all this didn't even begin to change until I was in my mid-twenties. I really, really, had to focus on MYSELF -- and not only from the POV of "what is wrong with me?" "what am I doing wrong?" -- but from the POV of -- how can I get over my own shyness, awkwardness, lack of self-esteem, feelings of being inadequate or less than other guys, feelings of self-pity, complaining and pouting because the world didn't just drop what I thought I wanted right into my lap! In other words, to change all that, I had to really get to know myself and SEE FOR MYSELF that in a lot of ways I WAS MY OWN WORST ENEMEY. I was *always* undermining and sabotaging myself. Always putting myself down, making my life miserable, and wondering why no one wanted to get down in my hole along with me.

Are you getting the picture? Does any of this sound familiar at all?

No one can save anyone else from themselves. YOU are responsible for your own life -- and your own happiness. It is a hard truth but one all of us have to face. For sure, having a friend or a lover can make one's life a lot more interesting and fun -- BUT if I don't have the ability to feel self-confident, self-assured, knowing at least some of my own value as a person in the world -- IOW, if I don't feel comfortable in my own skin at least some of the time, if I don't have the ability to find happiness in my own-self and in my own life with the things that I enjoy doing -- then chances are *extremely high* that NO ONE ELSE is gong to want to share my limited, boring, self-absorbed, self-indulgent, afraid-of-my-own-shadow-not-to-mention-the world, two-left-feet, "poor me! I *SO* suck at everything," etc., world.

Are you reading me? It's not that you have to give up… Its that you need to change your focus. You need to work on yourself FIRST, make yourself someone that YOU find interesting, someone you'd want to spend time with, that YOU believe in, that YOU care about and care for, that YOU find *sexy*, that you trust and enjoy, and so on and so forth. I guarantee you as that develops in yourself (and it does not happen over night) you WILL become more "attractive" (both physically and socially) to other guys. You'll feel more comfortable in your own skin and more able to take people AS THEY ARE (not just how you *want* them to be).

Am I just wasting my time here? I suggest if any of this fits for you at all you print this out and put it somewhere where you can read it once in a while -- like a month or two or three from now. It is a waist of my time to be writing all this if you're not going to use at least some of it to help yourself. And by *use* I don't mean just read it and give it some passing shallow thought for a mono-second. I mean actually realize *you have to do something*. You have to face your own fears, your own sense of unworthiness (or whatever it is), you have to take hold of yourself and take whatever steps you can take to get from here, where you are right now, to where you WANT to be in your life.

You *can* do it. All of us here will do whatever we can to help. BUT the work of doing it, that is up to you.

[MikeW]

I just thought of something else I want to say…

Ok, so guys ignore you. SO WHAT? Seriously, SO WHAT if they ignore you? Yeah, for sure it is frustrating but so, what's the big deal about it?

I think the answer to that question is you think it means something ABOUT YOU. Well, for sure, if they were interested in you they wouldn't ignore you. BUT the fact that they don't find you interesting says more about them than it does about you. This fact doesn't change all I've said above. If you want to be "interesting" or you want to get out of your "afraid of everybody" world, that's up to you and chances are guys will find you more interesting as you do that. But when someone ignores you you also have to take it for what its wroth… *that guy* isn't interested. That does NOT mean *you* aren't a worthy person -- or can't be if you choose to be. Seriously… guys are very different in what they want and how comfortable *they* feel IRL as well. Some are as clueless as you are. Some are just impatient. Some are fickle, hot one moment, cold the next. Some are just teases. Some want sex and don't care about anything else. Some want a relationship or think they do but have no REAL idea what that means, they're just day-dreaming and think it ought to be easy when in reality it just isn't. Some guys are only looking for guys who are slim, some want older guys, some want younger, some want tall, some want muscles, some want specific interests -- on and on and on and on… Again, if someone doesn't respond to you, that is THEIR choice made for THEIR reasons and I'd say 80 to 90% of that choice has to do with THEM, only the remaining 10 to 20% has anything to do with you -- and even then, only as a "first impression" -- at all.

Keep things in perspective.

[Borg69]

I just thought of something else I want to say…

Ok, so guys ignore you. SO WHAT? Seriously, SO WHAT if they ignore you? Yeah, for sure it is frustrating but so, what's the big deal about it?

Mike brings up a VERY good point here... those "Dating" and "Hookup" apps really are a terrible place to meet people, and especially bad to use as a barometer to judge your own self worth. MOST of those guys are shallow, liars, cheaters, self centered, players, users, ... and are on those sites because THEY too are more than likely socially inept enough they can't find someone in the real world either. Don't base your own self worth on the opinions of a bunch of psycho-fucks looking for some fantasy to stick their dicks in.

[havikryan]

That's easy...!!!

FEAR. Fear of rejection. Fear of looking stupid. Fear of embarrassing yourself. Fear of insulting the other person. Fear of not measuring up to their standards.

... and lack of practice. Conversation in and of itself is an art. Being stimulating. Engaging. Interesting. Informative. Throw on top of that, you also need to LISTEN. Take cues from the other person's actions, reactions, facial expressions, what they say and how they say it, and learn to intuitively let that lead your conversation's direction in other more engaging paths.

Then... you throw on top of all that all the nuances of FLIRTING !!!

Today's "kids" have a limited attention span. First impressions are everything. If you're not "Wowing" them in the first few texts, you're going to lose them.

It just takes practice... I for one HATE idle "how's the weather" chit chat, and probably because of my age I HATE abbreviated text speak. If your conversations consist of:

Sup' ? How'r U? HOT. How Big? Horny? ... I'm going to lose interest REALLY fast.

would just random conversations with people improve it then? would still be scared to death but if that is literally the only way for me to improve then I guess I don't have much of a choice.

well I don't use text speak so I guess that's a plus.

... and ... I looked at your profile. I think it's AWESOME you love animals. I really do... However - I'd be looking at those sites to find a friend/BF. Not a Zoo. The animals might be a turn off to some people whom worry about allergies, mess, smell, ... You might mention you have/like animals, but break them in slowly. They want to see YOU. Not whom they're going to be fighting for a spot on your bed with.

so should I remove the pictures of my pets then, add more of mine and simply keep it to saying in my profile I got pets like you said?

First of all, I've been participating in gay forums for a long time and what you're saying -- the frustration of getting ignored on dating apps and sites -- is *very* common. ESPECIALLY if you don't look more or less like this…


or this…



IOW… if you don't somehow ooze or exude "sex appeal." This is not to say that dudes who look or act like that don't *also* get blocked or ignored at times… they do. The thing is, they just don't give a shit. And with an app/text connection it is EASY to just ignore people, right? There are no consequences for the person doing the ignoring. No sweat off their balls if you're eating your own face because someone you don't even know just gives up on you because a) you're not looking or acting or txting sexy and b) you want to waste their time making small talk about such mundane things as what they're doing today. * B O R I N G *

So here's the deal… (so far as I can make out)… You have to be clear in yourself about what you want *AND* you have to be willing to work on yourself to *get* what you want.

For example, if what you're looking for is to find a cute guy to mess around with sexually, then you need to be clear in yourself about that. That's what you want and there's nothing wrong with it… perfectly fine. So, you set your profile up to do whatever it takes to put that out there. You get into your own 'sexyness' and express that in words and images of yourself. Voila, every other boy who is looking for the same thing will suddenly be more interested in you. (That does *not* mean your life will suddenly transform into it being everything you want, but lets not get ahead of ourselves…)

Or, if what you're really looking for is on-line friends and pen-pals (like I do), you approach it very differently. You don't limit yourself to an age preference (for example) because someone who is just a friend, someone you can chat with and just write emails back and forth, talking about whatever -- what differences does it make whether or not you a) find them sexy or b) how old they are? I am online friends with a lot of guys and they range in age from teens on up. Some of them I correspond with almost daily. Some a lot less frequent. The Denmark guy I mentioned and I met online, I duno, about 8 or 9 years ago IIRC (I think he was 16 at the time). Months can go by and we don't chat but then we'll run into one another on Facebook or Skype and have a chat. We're online buddies -- nothing sexual about it.

So, that's the first question… what do you want? What are you looking for? If you think you're looking for a "relationship" or a boyfriend… well, I gotta ask, how are you going to do *that* if you're so painfully shy, socially awkward *and* so easily dissuaded or put off when guys ignore you? Seriously give that some thought. How is that gong to work?

I hope you don't take offense at what I'm saying or the way I'm saying it. I'm just being honest with you, telling you how I see it and I'm doing it to, hopefully, be of some real help to you.

But what you have to understand is, getting what you want in life -- whatever it is -- is something you have to learn how to do, something you have to really focus on. It isn't up to anyone else, not me, not some random guy you say "hi" to on a social site or w/e, to make you happy and feel more complete, more self-assured, and so on. << What I'm saying right there is perhaps THE BIGGEST CLUE I know how to give any young man who is in your situation.

I'll come back to that point in a minute…

what I'm looking for is a relationship.

no offense taken, I have actually not thought of it that way, what you're saying is most certainly true when I see it like that, and definitely a problem.

But first I just want to give you an example. I'm in almost daily contact (and have been for going on a year now) with a British lad who is in his mid 20s who is like you in a lot of ways. He was always complaining how people ignored him and how he was bullied as a kid and had no friends, etc. At the time we met on another forum he had never even *kissed* anyone, boy or girl. This was a HUGE deal in his mind because he had himself convinced that, having never done *anything,* NO ONE would be interested in EVER doing anything with him.

Interestingly, not long after we met online, he *did* meet a guy through an app and started going out with him -- seeing him off and on for about a month. Soon he and the guy he met had done lots of things besides just kiss, LOL! BUT… and this is where it gets problematic… it turns out the other guy just wasn't *THAT* interested in my friend. Yeah, he was good for getting together and messing around… but my friend began to want more, want something more like a relationship, began to get upset whenever this guy didn't txt him back as soon as he thought he should, began to feel jealous of him dating other guys, began to feel clingy and insecure and so on. Well, pretty soon this guy he was seeing just told him, "look, I like you and all but I think you're more into me than I'm into you and I just don't want to be tied down like that, so, I don't think we should see one another any more."

Well, as you can imagine, my friend was devastated. This was the first guy he'd ever had any kind of thing going on with… his first *everything* (date, kiss, sex, etc)… and so of course he'd developed a strong crush on this guy. Moreover, now he was back right where he was before only worse off in a way because NOW he knew what he'd been missing!

So, returning the focus back to you… Yeah, you're right, it would be nice if the guys who ignore you gave you some clue WHY they are ignoring you. Like with my friend, the guy he was seeing just didn't disappear on him, he actually told him why he was moving on. BUT as you can see, it didn't make a lot of difference to my friend. He was still messed up because of it -- and still has a LOT of issues relating to people both online and IRL. His meeting this guy and having experiences did NOT change his situation and actually in some ways made it more difficult.

So… what is the bottom line here?

You've come to this forum complaining about being frustrated (indeed, "infuriated") with the way you're being ignored online by guys. You've come to us to vent about it and ask advice ("what am I doing wrong? because this is infuriating and just want to give up all together…"). And here I am taking a lot of time to write a very lengthy reply because 1) I'm familiar with this pattern and 2) I'd *like* to be of some help to you if I can but 3) I know bottom line this is something YOU are going to have to deal with. Neither I nor anyone else in the world can FIX your problem for you… not even a boyfriend!

I feel for you. I empathize with you. In many ways I was just like you when I was your age. I was terribly uncomfortable in my own skin. I felt socially awkward and *especially so* in "gay" situations (like in a gay bar) or whenever I was around most (not all) other gay people. Since this was way back long before the internet existed, this was all IRL, not online. I'd see someone I was attracted to but over and over and over again, they weren't interested in me. Worse, a lot of guys who WERE attracted to me, I wasn't attracted to them (they were usually old and creepy)! Worse yet, I was often getting crushes on straight guys and that was a total no-win situation.

FOR ME… all this didn't even begin to change until I was in my mid-twenties. I really, really, had to focus on MYSELF -- and not only from the POV of "what is wrong with me?" "what am I doing wrong?" -- but from the POV of -- how can I get over my own shyness, awkwardness, lack of self-esteem, feelings of being inadequate or less than other guys, feelings of self-pity, complaining and pouting because the world didn't just drop what I thought I wanted right into my lap! In other words, to change all that, I had to really get to know myself and SEE FOR MYSELF that in a lot of ways I WAS MY OWN WORST ENEMEY. I was *always* undermining and sabotaging myself. Always putting myself down, making my life miserable, and wondering why no one wanted to get down in my hole along with me.

Are you getting the picture? Does any of this sound familiar at all?

No one can save anyone else from themselves. YOU are responsible for your own life -- and your own happiness. It is a hard truth but one all of us have to face. For sure, having a friend or a lover can make one's life a lot more interesting and fun -- BUT if I don't have the ability to feel self-confident, self-assured, knowing at least some of my own value as a person in the world -- IOW, if I don't feel comfortable in my own skin at least some of the time, if I don't have the ability to find happiness in my own-self and in my own life with the things that I enjoy doing -- then chances are *extremely high* that NO ONE ELSE is gong to want to share my limited, boring, self-absorbed, self-indulgent, afraid-of-my-own-shadow-not-to-mention-the world, two-left-feet, "poor me! I *SO* suck at everything," etc., world.

Are you reading me? It's not that you have to give up… Its that you need to change your focus. You need to work on yourself FIRST, make yourself someone that YOU find interesting, someone you'd want to spend time with, that YOU believe in, that YOU care about and care for, that YOU find *sexy*, that you trust and enjoy, and so on and so forth. I guarantee you as that develops in yourself (and it does not happen over night) you WILL become more "attractive" (both physically and socially) to other guys. You'll feel more comfortable in your own skin and more able to take people AS THEY ARE (not just how you *want* them to be).

so if I fully understand I have to work on my self worth, work on how I view myself and my interaction with others, I have to like myself in every regard else no one will or will appear more ''like able'' that way.

Am I just wasting my time here? I suggest if any of this fits for you at all you print this out and put it somewhere where you can read it once in a while -- like a month or two or three from now. It is a waist of my time to be writing all this if you're not going to use at least some of it to help yourself. And by *use* I don't mean just read it and give it some passing shallow thought for a mono-second. I mean actually realize *you have to do something*. You have to face your own fears, your own sense of unworthiness (or whatever it is), you have to take hold of yourself and take whatever steps you can take to get from here, where you are right now, to where you WANT to be in your life.

You *can* do it. All of us here will do whatever we can to help. BUT the work of doing it, that is up to you.

I've actually read through it 4 times now, there's allot of advice which I'm very grateful for but also allot to understand at once which is why I've read it more then once and will probably read it again tomorrow as it is just so much.

I just thought of something else I want to say…

Ok, so guys ignore you. SO WHAT? Seriously, SO WHAT if they ignore you? Yeah, for sure it is frustrating but so, what's the big deal about it?

I think the answer to that question is you think it means something ABOUT YOU. Well, for sure, if they were interested in you they wouldn't ignore you. BUT the fact that they don't find you interesting says more about them than it does about you. This fact doesn't change all I've said above. If you want to be "interesting" or you want to get out of your "afraid of everybody" world, that's up to you and chances are guys will find you more interesting as you do that. But when someone ignores you you also have to take it for what its wroth… *that guy* isn't interested. That does NOT mean *you* aren't a worthy person -- or can't be if you choose to be. Seriously… guys are very different in what they want and how comfortable *they* feel IRL as well. Some are as clueless as you are. Some are just impatient. Some are fickle, hot one moment, cold the next. Some are just teases. Some want sex and don't care about anything else. Some want a relationship or think they do but have no REAL idea what that means, they're just day-dreaming and think it ought to be easy when in reality it just isn't. Some guys are only looking for guys who are slim, some want older guys, some want younger, some want tall, some want muscles, some want specific interests -- on and on and on and on… Again, if someone doesn't respond to you, that is THEIR choice made for THEIR reasons and I'd say 80 to 90% of that choice has to do with THEM, only the remaining 10 to 20% has anything to do with you -- and even then, only as a "first impression" -- at all.

Keep things in perspective.

I always ask myself what I did wrong with I get ignored and spend days thinking about it, but if the majority of the reason truly does lie with the other person then I suppose it shouldn't matter that much if you say so,it will take some getting used to though.

Mike brings up a VERY good point here... those "Dating" and "Hookup" apps really are a terrible place to meet people, and especially bad to use as a barometer to judge your own self worth. MOST of those guys are shallow, liars, cheaters, self centered, players, users, ... and are on those sites because THEY too are more than likely socially inept enough they can't find someone in the real world either. Don't base your own self worth on the opinions of a bunch of psycho-fucks looking for some fantasy to stick their dicks in.

but what about those that aren't out to just have a fuck? you do make a good point though, it will still remain in the back of my head I'm afraid.

also, I will read all of these replies again tomorrow and either edit my post or post a new reply as there is still so much information I feel like I haven't fully addressed yet

[Borg69]

would just random conversations with people improve it then? would still be scared to death but if that is literally the only way for me to improve then I guess I don't have much of a choice.

well I don't use text speak so I guess that's a plus.


so should I remove the pictures of my pets then, add more of mine and simply keep it to saying in my profile I got pets like you said?




what I'm looking for is a relationship.

no offense taken, I have actually not thought of it that way, what you're saying is most certainly true when I see it like that, and definitely a problem.



so if I fully understand I have to work on my self worth, work on how I view myself and my interaction with others, I have to like myself in every regard else no one will or will appear more ''like able'' that way.



I've actually read through it 4 times now, there's allot of advice which I'm very grateful for but also allot to understand at once which is why I've read it more then once and will probably read it again tomorrow as it is just so much.


I always ask myself what I did wrong with I get ignored and spend days thinking about it, but if the majority of the reason truly does lie with the other person then I suppose it shouldn't matter that much if you say so,it will take some getting used to though.




but what about those that aren't out to just have a fuck? you do make a good point though, it will still remain in the back of my head I'm afraid.

also, I will read all of these replies again tomorrow and either edit my post or post a new reply as there is still so much information I feel like I haven't fully addressed yet

You can practice talking here, where the stakes aren't high, you're among friends and have nothing to lose. Dating is a numbers game. Hypothetically say one in 50 guys of those apps is a fairly decent guy looking for a relationship. Out of those guys, some will want short, old, blond, top only, bottom only, buff, hung, facial hair, ... a ton of permutations you may not fall into for them 100%. You just can't be all things for all people. You just be the best YOU you can and put yourself out there so those guys who will appreciate you for you can find you. He'll come along. You just have to be patient. If you doubt me, look at the couple's shopping at Wal-Mart. There's several someone's for everyone.

[MikeW]

...what I'm looking for is a relationship.

no offense taken, I have actually not thought of it that way, what you're saying is most certainly true when I see it like that, and definitely a problem. ...

Alright, so, first of all, thanks for coming back and replying to us! I agree with [MENTION=21075]Borg69[/MENTION] just keep hanging out with us awhile and getting to know folks. The fact that you came back and the way you've replied to our posts so far tells me that you're an intelligent, thoughtful, sincere guy who is interested in trying to learn about himself and life. These are very important qualities -- far more important than a lot of the things you're afraid *might* be true about you. You're also a good looking guy (no homo!) hahaha. You've got a lot going for you already and it is important that you realize this… Just by being yourself, being honest, asking questions, acknowledging that you're going to have to think about all this…. I can tell you, you're WAY ahead of a lot of the competition. You've got a lot to offer -- and this is what you need to focus on about yourself. I don't mean that in any *vain* way, I mean you need to get an honest, balanced picture of yourself -- your strengths and weaknesses. (We all have them!) Basically what we have to learn to do is build on our strengths and work on our weaknesses, little by little.

Unlike going to school, life is an on-going process you can never really graduate from. Every thing you do is (or at least *can be* if you use it that way) a "learning experience." You took some risks and tried to get something going using apps and dating sites and you didn't get the response you were hoping for. Quite the contrary. People were just RUDE! :eek:

HOW DARE THEY!

On the other hand, you didn't just give up! Yeah it pissed you off but look what you did! You came here and you sought help… and now you're learning and trying to understand. Hey! You're using it as a learning experience!

So, the main thing you need to know is that, although occasionally gay guys do actually find relationships (what you say you want) online, from what I can gather from my life on forums, this happens *about as frequently as getting struck by lightening*. IOW, yeah, it *does* happen, but, man, it ain't to damn likely. NOW, a hook-up… for that the odds would be a bit more in your favor. Still, not as great as you might think. I seriously can't tell you how many times I've read posts like yours in the lsat few years. Using the internet to find an actual dates IS frustrating.

So… chances are… to find what you want you're going to have to broaden your search INTO THE REAL WORLD! :eek:

That's like risk taking times 100 right?

For sure, continue using your apps or dating sites or whatever if you want, but don't take them overly seriously. What you're looking for *might* show up there, it does happen, but you're not going to limit your search to that arena.

Are you?

[Borg69]

I just read through most of your POF profile.

It's great you're being honest, but IMO you're being a bit too honest. Listing all your perceived flaws right off the bat doesn't really make a great first impression. You could sell yourself a little better. Think of it like a resume for a job application, or trying to sell a used car. List the good points, and be honest about the bad IF they come up - but don't give too much info. You're talking people out of you right out of the gate, and what you see as flaws might be that endearing thing someone else loves.

[ShiftyNJ]

You are a cute guy. Turn the computer off, put on one of your favorite outfits, and take that dog for a walk in the park. Look for another cute guy with a dog, let your dogs do their dog-flirting and talk to him about dogs. Don't have any expectations beyond "hey it's a nice day and here we are with our dogs."

If you don't believe you are worth knowing, why would you expect anybody else to believe it? Us telling you isn't going to change it. You have to start out by understanding what is good about you and then putting it out there in the world.

I was NOT a cute guy when I was your age (I lacked any access to someone more experienced with the interest in helping me, so yay, Internet!) and made the mistake of planning my whole life around meeting a man. Bad move. It wasn't until I learned to enjoy my own company that I was able to convince anybody else that they should want to be around me. And to say "convince them" makes it sound like it was a sales job. Not so... I just gave myself permission to do the things I liked and enjoy doing them, and thus people saw me at my most attractive.