this is just infuriating.

[havikryan]

just posting to let you know I have in fact read all of your replies but there is just so much information I can't give a good response yet, which is why my previous reply took so long(for which I apologize) because I have to reread the posts again and again and again and spend hours thinking about it, so I have read them and will respond to them, hopefully, tomorrow!

[MikeW]

[MENTION=19466]havikryan[/MENTION] What matters isn't the response to our posts. What matters is you taking whatever fits for you from them and applying it to your life. Like I say, its a process, often made up of many small changes in one's life, that taken together can take years. So, there's no hurry. But thanks for letting us know you're thinking about all this.

[ShiftyNJ]

just posting to let you know I have in fact read all of your replies but there is just so much information I can't give a good response yet, which is why my previous reply took so long(for which I apologize) because I have to reread the posts again and again and again and spend hours thinking about it, so I have read them and will respond to them, hopefully, tomorrow!

Take as long as you need and ask more questions/offer more thoughts as they come.

[Double23]

To be honest online dating for some people like me is just a way to find someone to quickly date in real life and if you don't ask some people out quickly out they'll lose interest. I personally don't have any interest in having a long drawn out conversation online, face to face contact is what matters to me, not having an online friend, I've got plenty of those already.

I suppose that's why I like the convince of apps like grindr you can find someone really close by to start dating pretty much straight away.

[Iceblink]

I just read through most of your POF profile.

It's great you're being honest, but IMO you're being a bit too honest. Listing all your perceived flaws right off the bat doesn't really make a great first impression. You could sell yourself a little better. Think of it like a resume for a job application, or trying to sell a used car. List the good points, and be honest about the bad IF they come up - but don't give too much info. You're talking people out of you right out of the gate, and what you see as flaws might be that endearing thing someone else loves.

I'm glad someone said this because I thought the same thing but worried about the way havikryan would take it because he seems like such a sweetheart and sensitive soul.

So since it is out there, havikryan, you are really highlighting your unemployment and lack of income. Reword this to talk about your goals in seeking an occupation and what you want in life and omit this part - "I play games on the pc everyday, and for now almost the entire day because I do not have a job yet." Mention gaming as one of your interests, but don't say it in that way. You are seeking a relationship and unfortunately your unemployment is going to be a turn off to many, but even more so if your present in a way of dread and negativity.

[havikryan]

You can practice talking here, where the stakes aren't high, you're among friends and have nothing to lose. Dating is a numbers game. Hypothetically say one in 50 guys of those apps is a fairly decent guy looking for a relationship. Out of those guys, some will want short, old, blond, top only, bottom only, buff, hung, facial hair, ... a ton of permutations you may not fall into for them 100%. You just can't be all things for all people. You just be the best YOU you can and put yourself out there so those guys who will appreciate you for you can find you. He'll come along. You just have to be patient. If you doubt me, look at the couple's shopping at Wal-Mart. There's several someone's for everyone.

well I've tried that in the past but apparently insulted allot of people and got hated on/bashed and no matter what I would say or how I would apologize they'd continue and basically left the forums because of that.

have to get rid of blaming myself for it all eh? guess you are right in the fact that I can't reach the standards or requirement of every person there is.

well there's not a Wal-Mart not in my country but I get what you mean ;p

Alright, so, first of all, thanks for coming back and replying to us! I agree with [MENTION=21075]Borg69[/MENTION] just keep hanging out with us awhile and getting to know folks. The fact that you came back and the way you've replied to our posts so far tells me that you're an intelligent, thoughtful, sincere guy who is interested in trying to learn about himself and life. These are very important qualities -- far more important than a lot of the things you're afraid *might* be true about you. You're also a good looking guy (no homo!) hahaha. You've got a lot going for you already and it is important that you realize this… Just by being yourself, being honest, asking questions, acknowledging that you're going to have to think about all this…. I can tell you, you're WAY ahead of a lot of the competition. You've got a lot to offer -- and this is what you need to focus on about yourself. I don't mean that in any *vain* way, I mean you need to get an honest, balanced picture of yourself -- your strengths and weaknesses. (We all have them!) Basically what we have to learn to do is build on our strengths and work on our weaknesses, little by little.

I'll try to post more often on the forums though still reluctant because of what happened here in the past.

well my profile only shows my head so you don't know what I ''completely'' look like.

I'm actually following a program atm about autism to learn more about my strengths and weaknesses so that should also help

Unlike going to school, life is an on-going process you can never really graduate from. Every thing you do is (or at least *can be* if you use it that way) a "learning experience." You took some risks and tried to get something going using apps and dating sites and you didn't get the response you were hoping for. Quite the contrary. People were just RUDE! :eek:

HOW DARE THEY!

On the other hand, you didn't just give up! Yeah it pissed you off but look what you did! You came here and you sought help… and now you're learning and trying to understand. Hey! You're using it as a learning experience!

and here I thought I was happy finally being done with school!

I have given up in the past though but the end result stayed the same so the only solution to me seemed to seek for help

So, the main thing you need to know is that, although occasionally gay guys do actually find relationships (what you say you want) online, from what I can gather from my life on forums, this happens *about as frequently as getting struck by lightening*. IOW, yeah, it *does* happen, but, man, it ain't to damn likely. NOW, a hook-up… for that the odds would be a bit more in your favor. Still, not as great as you might think. I seriously can't tell you how many times I've read posts like yours in the last few years. Using the internet to find an actual dates IS frustrating.

So… chances are… to find what you want you're going to have to broaden your search INTO THE REAL WORLD! :eek:

That's like risk taking times 100 right?

For sure, continue using your apps or dating sites or whatever if you want, but don't take them overly seriously. What you're looking for *might* show up there, it does happen, but you're not going to limit your search to that arena.

Are you?

I don't actually know where to look in the real world, only place I know of is gaybars and that's it, and yes I already thought the chances were quite low it seemed easier for me as to go into that scary world haha.

I just read through most of your POF profile.

It's great you're being honest, but IMO you're being a bit too honest. Listing all your perceived flaws right off the bat doesn't really make a great first impression. You could sell yourself a little better. Think of it like a resume for a job application, or trying to sell a used car. List the good points, and be honest about the bad IF they come up - but don't give too much info. You're talking people out of you right out of the gate, and what you see as flaws might be that endearing thing someone else loves.

I feel like I lie about myself if I don't mention them though that's why I put them on there, like autism for example should I really not put that on there? it's a pretty big thing that affects me everyday.

You are a cute guy. Turn the computer off, put on one of your favorite outfits, and take that dog for a walk in the park. Look for another cute guy with a dog, let your dogs do their dog-flirting and talk to him about dogs. Don't have any expectations beyond "hey it's a nice day and here we are with our dogs."

If you don't believe you are worth knowing, why would you expect anybody else to believe it? Us telling you isn't going to change it. You have to start out by understanding what is good about you and then putting it out there in the world.

I was NOT a cute guy when I was your age (I lacked any access to someone more experienced with the interest in helping me, so yay, Internet!) and made the mistake of planning my whole life around meeting a man. Bad move. It wasn't until I learned to enjoy my own company that I was able to convince anybody else that they should want to be around me. And to say "convince them" makes it sound like it was a sales job. Not so... I just gave myself permission to do the things I liked and enjoy doing them, and thus people saw me at my most attractive.

I'll see if there are parks, I usually go to the forest with my dog but don't meet allot of people there, on some trips even 0.

from what I think I'm getting it's all about self confidence

[MENTION=19466]havikryan[/MENTION] What matters isn't the response to our posts. What matters is you taking whatever fits for you from them and applying it to your life. Like I say, its a process, often made up of many small changes in one's life, that taken together can take years. So, there's no hurry. But thanks for letting us know you're thinking about all this.

it's not only the response it's also trying to understand all of it, I had to read your big post about 10 times if not before being able to come up with a response AND hopefully fully understanding everything that you've said, while some sentences seem easy to understand for me they're quite difficult which is at the same time very time consuming in trying to understand all of it. even as I've typed all of this I still feel puzzled about even my own responses.

Take as long as you need and ask more questions/offer more thoughts as they come.

will do!

To be honest online dating for some people like me is just a way to find someone to quickly date in real life and if you don't ask some people out quickly out they'll lose interest. I personally don't have any interest in having a long drawn out conversation online, face to face contact is what matters to me, not having an online friend, I've got plenty of those already.

I suppose that's why I like the convince of apps like grindr you can find someone really close by to start dating pretty much straight away.

I've tried grindr but almost all of the messages I receive is about sex which I'm not interested in.

I'm glad someone said this because I thought the same thing but worried about the way havikryan would take it because he seems like such a sweetheart and sensitive soul.

So since it is out there, havikryan, you are really highlighting your unemployment and lack of income. Reword this to talk about your goals in seeking an occupation and what you want in life and omit this part - "I play games on the pc everyday, and for now almost the entire day because I do not have a job yet." Mention gaming as one of your interests, but don't say it in that way. You are seeking a relationship and unfortunately your unemployment is going to be a turn off to many, but even more so if you present it in a way of dread and negativity.

I've adjusted it a bit, hopefully it's better.

the problem for be comes back to what I mentioned earlier, feeling like I'm lying to people if I don't mention everything about me to them and I would hate to lie to someone even if I'd never meet them.

[MikeW]

I'll try to post more often on the forums though still reluctant because of what happened here in the past.

When you say "here" I hope you don't mean on Gay Speak! :eek:

I think this is a fairly safe forum for you and I invite you to keep posting as much as you'd like. And don't feel you have to only stick to this, your own, thread. I can't promise that someone won't get offended or upset with you in some way. That does happen but on this forum it is very rare. Besides, if anyone is giving you a hard time, just let me know and I'll kick their ass!! I *can* promise you that I won't get upset with you unless you really, really, really work at insulting me on purpose for some reason -- and I can't imagine you ever doing that. For sure, I'll try to never give you any reason to.

well my profile only shows my head so you don't know what I ''completely'' look like.

True enough. But so far as you and I are concerned it doesn't matter, does it? I'm not looking at you for "sex" or anything else really, other than helping you out if I can. So, I don't much care what you look like. I'm just saying you seem like a good looking guy to me and a nice enough fellow all in all.

I'm actually following a program atm about autism to learn more about my strengths and weaknesses so that should also help

That's good, that's excellent! You mention in reply to someone else you feel you are being dishonest if you're not 100% truthful. Well, first thing you need to know is EVERYBODY lies to some extent. Now, *some* people do it on purpose, deliberately to mislead someone. Just recently another member of this forum discovered this very handsome young man he had been associating with online was *in reality* a MUCH older man. He was lying about what he looked like and how old he was and probably a lot of other things. People who do that online are called "catfish". (Exactly why, I don't know.) Some people lie because they want to manipulate other people into doing or believing things that aren't true.

Some people lie because *they believe their own lies*. That is, they don't actually know their own truth and so they lie, not realizing they are doing it.

A lot of people lie by omission. That is, they don't tell the WHOLE truth right up front. But, you know, *everyone* has their weaknesses, right? No one is *perfect*. Everyone has problems of one sort and another.

Think about it this way, you know a lot of people in your life. But do you know *everything* about them? Even people you've known all your life -- your mom and dad -- or your teachers in school, for example -- do you know *everything* about them? When you meet someone for the first time, do you even *want* to know "everything" -- all their problems and insecurities and fears? True, you may want to get to know these things at some point, perhaps, but do you want to know those things first off? I'm willing to bet you don't! Usually it isn't until we get to know someone a bit more than a smile and a hand-shake that we want to know more about what is going on in their world. So, although in a sense you're right, not telling the whole truth is "lying by omission," most people DO that -- especially when they are meeting someone for the first time -- or even the first few times.

We can talk more about this if you want. But give that a bit of thought.

I don't actually know where to look in the real world, only place I know of is gaybars and that's it, and yes I already thought the chances were quite low it seemed easier for me as to go into that scary world haha.

Well, again you're right in a way but as you've seen even the online option doesn't work very well. This is a very real problem that many gay men of all ages face. How do we find one another when we feel like it isn't always safe to let *everyone* know that we're gay! So, we've created special places like gay bars to meet one another. But even so… say in your town… lets imagine that there is one gay bar.. Now are all the gay men in town going to be there all the time? :eek: Nope! A few may be there all the time but chances are they're not the kind of guys you're looking to meet. So… it is again almost a matter of dumb luck that you'd go into the bar at exactly the same time that the one or two or three other guys in your town who are also gay and who would like you and accept you for who you are would *also* happen to be there. Again, sort of like lightening striking.

So… this is yet another topic we can talk about as time goes on. All I can say at this point is, you might want to try and think about "finding someone" differently. I think that's what a lot of us are suggesting. First and foremost, as you've said, realizing that feeling more self confident is the first step. As *that* develops, you can begin to move more freely in the real world and see who and what is there for you. We'll talk more about this as time goes on if you want.

it's not only the response it's also trying to understand all of it, I had to read your big post about 10 times if not before being able to come up with a response AND hopefully fully understanding everything that you've said, while some sentences seem easy to understand for me they're quite difficult which is at the same time very time consuming in trying to understand all of it. even as I've typed all of this I still feel puzzled about even my own responses.

hahaha… not laughing AT you, that last sentence just makes me smile. Hell if I know what I'm saying half the time!

Alright, first off, I use a lot of words and my sentences can sometimes go on longer than the Mississippi river with more twists and turns in them than a four dimensional hyperbolic cork screw. << That is meant to be an example. Sorry about that! I'll try to be more brief and to the point! But, yeah, I know, you're not the first person to tell me I can be a bit overwhelming. Consider it one of my limitations. Its just the way my brain works!

I'm glad we're getting to know one another and I hope you keep coming back and talking with us. I will say this, you're not the first young man I've met online who has this kind of problem! I'm thinking of one in particular that I've been emailing back and forth with almost daily for a year now. You two have a lot in common -- he even has a dog and likes to go for long walks in the woods!

Ok, enough from me for now! I have stuff I got to do but I'm glad you're still with us!

[ShiftyNJ]

will do!

I've tried grindr but almost all of the messages I receive is about sex which I'm not interested in.

I've adjusted it a bit, hopefully it's better.

the problem for be comes back to what I mentioned earlier, feeling like I'm lying to people if I don't mention everything about me to them and I would hate to lie to someone even if I'd never meet them.

As someone who has been accused of "talking past the sale" I understand this all too well. Remember, though; they didn't ask you if you were on the spectrum and you denied it (that would be lying). You can wait until you have a sense of who they are and share things as you are comfortable, same as someone might do with a fact like "I was married, but my spouse died" or "I have a child" or "I am very religious" that another gay guy might not automatically assume. It is nothing to be ashamed of, but people can get overwhelmed if you give them a lot of complicated information all at once... it may seem like you're trying to convince them a friendship or more with you won't work out due to all these reasons. If someone feels like you were "hiding something" for being judicious on how you share personal things about yourself, they are probably not worth getting to know.

QUESTION: Have you spent any time in the autism community on line? I am just asking because - while we can talk with you about these things, you might get a different perspective from other people on the spectrum. I was looking around, trying to get a better sense of things, and saw a few references to a site called wrongplanet.net and it looks interesting. I quickly found an article which would suggest it is also LGBT friendly, so this may be another place to spend some time and maybe talk to folks if you like.

http://wrongplanet.net/a-rather-queer-ye...tt-holman/

[elprinciperojo]

OP, I posted a thread like this, too. The same exact kind of situation. I've even met guys in person, and a lot of them usually say things like, "I really like you," "You're so cute," "You're really cool," "Hey sexy." But you know what? Eventually, they ALL ended up ignoring me. I wish I could tell you the solution to this problem. It's sad that it seems to be a regular occurrence... From your pictures and profile, there is absolutely nothing wrong with you.

Lately, I've been beginning to wonder if perhaps a lot of young guys this day and age -- unless this happens to most guys in their younger adult years, 18-30ish -- have watched too many movies or something, expecting love to be the kind of thing that makes your heart melt and feel all warm and fuzzy inside. Well, yes, it does, but this hardly happens by just meeting someone once. Usually, love is something that has to grow, but I end up meeting a lot of guys who seem to give up when they don't feel that so-called spark immediately.

Sorry for my rambling. I really don't know what the problem is. I'm in the same boat!

[ShiftyNJ]

To say nothing of everybody "deserves" someone who looks like a model (as [MENTION=20947]MikeW[/MENTION] mentioned above).

I'll just keep saying it. There is nothing. Wrong. with You.

I want to post that clip from Golden Girls, where Blanche teaches Dorothy her mantra:
"I am beautiful, men find me desirable, and people want to be my friend."