Think about it

[meridannight]

OMFG, to your, "Smoking alone spews 2.6 million tons of CO2 ... into the atmosphere every year." Holy JFCOAS!

Say, do you drive? (I don't.) Did you know that, over 40 BILLION tons of CO2 are put into the atmosphere every year from burning fossil fuels?

The "ignorant" attitude I'm displaying is the same ignorant attitude that everyone who lives in contemporary post industrial society displays. The electronic device you're using right now to read these words -- how much pollution and environmental degradation resulted from the acquisition of the raw materials, manufacturing of its various parts, packaging, shipping, distribution, and inevitable disposal?

OK?

So don't give me any 'tude, dude! If you're living in contemporary society, you are contributing to the destruction of this planet.

i am gonna give you all the attitude i have.

here it is:

the effing difference is, computers are a benefit, cars are a benefit to our lives and society as a whole. the same electronic device i'm using to read and type these words i am also using for keeping clubs working and open, designing, learning, and producing original work that goes on to contribute to the lives of others and the cultural legacy of our time. cars have their environmental cost, like airplanes do, but they obviously contribute to the facilitation of our progress as an economic-industrial and culturally-advanced society as a whole.

cigarettes contribute to what exactly? how do they contribute to the advancement and progress of our society and culture to justify the cost of their production and continuation? until you pull such a contribution out from some place don't compare cigarettes to cars and computers, or any other environmentally-costly item that human race as a whole benefits from.

yes, i drive. no, i don't use a fuel-efficient car. at least i'm not being a hypocrite about it. that's what i was referring to in your post there, where you talked about smoking and then about other people polluting your planet in the same sentence. you smoke, own up to the fucking bullshit involved. do you think i don't have friends who smoke? i do. but i don't hear them spew such nonsense like you and [MENTION=12444]Bowyn Aerrow[/MENTION] have said here in this thread. they own up to the fact that it's a useless habit detrimental to the environment, health, and life of other people. that's what i can't stand here, the hypocrisy. we all know the facts, whether a little exaggerated one way or the other. the attempt to downplay it, and/or make invalid analogies doesn't fly.

[Butterfingers]

So light a candle. Or get a log fire.

First, let me say that I quit smoking about 4 years ago, I don't miss it.
Candles, log fires and smoking all pollute, as does my barbeque grill about 4 or 5 nights per week.
My car pollutes as well, so does my dog.

Now as for the dirty cigarettes, they are bad, no doubt. They kill people and cost society as a whole when we find medical costs skyrocketing due to treatment of smokers.

We also pay for morbid obesity and just "regular" obesity.
Should we tax doughnut and pop? Maybe outlaw them?
Most find it easy to join the anti smoking campaign, but, how far do we go? What is next?

[yousir]

The thing is. Imagine if you never took up smoking... What would you do as an alternative? Smoking satisfies the craving it creates, thus you get the feeling of relaxation or whatever. It only has that effect because you took it up and now require it and associate it with stress relief.

[jaxc]

Wow this thread got heated! lets all calm down everybody and lets all just agree that no matter what our opinions are, what is absolutely true is that...a good cigar is superior to any cigarette anyways :biggrin:

[himself]

I saw cigarettes as friends. I felt like nothing was real without cigarettes. Even if it's a good day, I start thinking about smoking / drinking even though I know it will just ruin the whole day. But I'm trying to get past that. I keep buying cigarettes, smoking a few and throwing the rest away. It's the same with alcohol. Things feel like they don't count if I'm sober. It is simple to just stop smoking - you just stop. But it's hard to guarantee what you are going to be thinking tomorrow / what frame of mind you're going to be in. It may be easy today but you might think, "What's the point?" tomorrow. You keep trying to persuade yourself to smoke. For me, the hardest part is the thought that I can't do it / that it is difficult to quit. I keep thinking that I will almost certainly fall off the tightrope. I suppose it is a lot easier if you have a positive attitude. For me, being a smoker has never been a sustainable lifestyle. I don't understand how anyone could smoke and have no intention of quitting. Interestingly, when I'm back home, I don't really feel the need to smoke. When I'm away, I keep thinking about it. Cigarettes are like friends that you can set on fire, stick in your mouth and inhale.

[MikeW]

they own up to the fact that it's a useless habit detrimental to the environment, health, and life of other people. That's what i can't stand here, the hypocrisy. we all know the facts, whether a little exaggerated one way or the other. The attempt to downplay it, and/or make invalid analogies doesn't fly.

Dude, read my words, i was being sarcastic in my first post! I don't even smoke! We're all contributing to the destruction of this planet simply by participating in contemporary society, whether it is profitable or just stupid self indulgence. So cool your self-righteous tits, k?

[Butterfingers]

My attitude is that we are in a free country, smokers indulge in a legal activity. Most ex smokers hate cigarettes, I really don't care about them, I don't feel threatened by their existence.
I do feel bad for those who can't find a way to quit the habit.
I also think about the majority of smokers, they are low(er) income people and are paying an exorbitant
amount in taxes for their habit.
I worry far more about the homeless, the hungry, the abused and neglected than I do about smokers.

[meridannight]

Dude, read my words, i was being sarcastic in my first post! I don't even smoke! We're all contributing to the destruction of this planet simply by participating in contemporary society, whether it is profitable or just stupid self indulgence. So cool your self-righteous tits, k?

i'll cool it when i cool it. don't worry about me getting hot.

the destruction of the planet was not the problem i addressed at all. i addressed people who are defending smoking and the stupidity/ridiculousness of doing so. there's no way you're gonna argue out of that one clean. i also pointed it out it was the hypocrisy i was addressing. that's what was my motivation, not some BS self-righteousness. i'm aware i'm contributing my part in producing harmful waste on this planet. but i don't try to defend my own useless/harmful habits and behavior like you.

I smoke sometimes. Not all the time, but sometimes.

so now you're eating your words? you now don't smoke at all then, not even ''sometimes''? that's nice to hear.

and i heard you the first time when you said you were being sarcastic. i also heard you when you went on a tirade to place the cost of smoking on par with the cost of having mobility and access (cars, computers), etc in our society.

[MikeW]

i addressed people who are defending smoking and the stupidity/ridiculousness of doing so.

I wasn't "defending" anything. I was parodying the prevailing social attitude. I can think of a gazillion things that are utterly useless, even downright harmful, that hundreds of millions of humans do ever day. From shooting heroin to eating donuts with sprinkles on top -- and everything in-between. So fucking what? Why single out cigarettes and smokers as opposed to anyone or anything else? THAT is hypocritical, IMO.

[Pix]

Smoking... there is more to it than meets the eye. Sure nicotine is addictive, but, it goes beyond that.

Man has a romance with smoke and fire, the control of the fire, looking at it, watching the smoke rise up, it's wired into us, it goes back to the days of our prehistoric ancestors, harnessing, controlling and using fire for protection and warmth, then these ancestors found that meat tasted better when cooked,
unknowingly (from what I have read) when they cooked meat it provided protean that fed the brain, early man began to grow mentally from eating cooked food.

So, what does this have to do with cigarettes? The flame and smoke appeals to our primitive instincts,
a certain comfort and romance is found by smokers when they light up.

At least that's my theory.

I love this!

Understand, I have an anthropological interest in my species, as strange as it sounds. I've long been mystified by the appeal of smoking and as such I read up on the history. I know marketing plays a pivotal role (and also in reversing the trend) but going back to the origins, I think your theory is spot on, and that originally, it was pretty much a religious ritual (but I'm not aware of it being a habit back then, and when the Europeans took up smoking it was more fashion & novelty which then becomes addictive and it was hard to care about the smell and potential health hazards given what many cities of Europeans were like back then).

Your theory also reminds me of other aspects of fire that linger from our prehistoric days. Fire itself is archetypical and seems a core component of almost every religion in one way or another...controlled fire became symbols of power in of themselves (like swords, made of fire and metal, that became legendary as defeating the forces of darkness, even if those swords inevitably got used on each other). Heck, I've thought the fanatical love some guys I've known have over their outdoor BBQ grills (fire) harkens back to days before recorded history of Thog cooking mammoth over the fire pit with the power stolen from the gods themselves, power that is now HIS to not just live but to thrive, and to provide for friends and family (gaining respect and prestige in the process).

Thanks for sharing. mile: