What's the problem?

[Pix]

..and Liberals will gladly list the atrocities of the Christians...but for some reason that is not clear to me..will defend the Muslim...or ignore them...and for a gay man..uh..they are throwing my fellow gay men off the roof and hanging them....and murdering them....so why the pass???????

I haven't noticed this as a general rule, though I used to be friends with a woman who works in California to get Democrats elected who told me how she was ostracized for believing that immigrants needed to come here legally despite that she both gave liberal reasons for doing so (such as this hurts unions in the US as well as not working to create liberal changes in their own country) and that she also wanted to make it much easier to immigrate, and for this she was called racist despite that she wanted to make it easier to immigrate here (among many other things), so it sounds believable they could do that as well.

Many years ago (and my memory is vague on the details) I met a gay man who was waving a sign in support of Hamas (technically this was at an anti-Israel rally I happened to be walking past) and I asked (more curious than anything) if he knew that Hamas promoted death for homosexuality. His reaction to me was not the least bit rational and very defensive, essentially he was calling me a brainwashed FOX zombie, and as best as I can figure it he believes that since conservatives support Israeli strikes against Palestine that therefore Hamas must be liberals friendly to gays. Oh, and I tried to explain that Hamas is a faction within Palestine rather than Palestine itself and they're known to terrorize other Palestinians who don't support them (therefore you can support Palestine without supporting Hamas, or even just be opposed to what Israel is doing without supporting anyone), but he didn't believe me, and I got the impression that what I was saying was just too complicated for him to understand.

So that seems to be it, if conservatives are against it then plenty of liberals feel they must support it. I guess it's like some metaphoric God/Satan thing. If a Christian sees Satan hate Beelzebub then all they see is that Satan is against this other demon and therefore that other demon must be an angel, because Satan would only oppose it if it were good and pure. While this seems almost too incredible to be true it's the only way I could make sense out of the few people like him I interacted with.

I do have liberal and conservative friends but they're not slaves to their respective herds and will criticize their own side at times, like that Democrat friend of mine who was called a racist by her mentally lazy associates.

Though funny (if annoying at the time) experience...I got into a conversation at a vegan cafe (she sat next to me and wouldn't leave me alone as I had my samosas and reading a paper) with a Democrat I didn't know who preferred Hillary over Obama (this was when the two were fighting over the 2008 nomination) and she would not stop trying to get my support for Hillary. But she was so incredibly ignorant about the voting records of both among other things and she was sure I must be a brainwashed conservative, and when I cited Project Vote Smart for voting records she said that was obviously a conservative propaganda site as well.

And the kicker was when I explained the DOMA that Hillary's husband signed into law and Hillary (at the time) said she supported it this strange woman who wouldn't leave me alone tried to turn it around into making it so that it sounded like I hated gays but when I said "I am gay" she LEANED BACK from me. It took a lot of willpower for me not to suddenly grab her arm and go, "Not so fast, sweet cheeks, we've built up far too much sexual tension for me to let you go so easily."

[Lexington]

I haven't noticed this as a general rule...

The rest of your post succinctly suggests it IS a general rule.

Lex

[East]

Good points [MENTION=14705]Pix[/MENTION] ...and I have this problem alot actually...

Three examples...where I have views that are regarded with suspicion because I end up at the same table with conservatives BUT...for much different reasons (of my own)

GUNS...the ship has sailed long ago. Home invasions are becoming common...and no one is going to tell me I have to sit there and let someone kill me because they think it is a good idea that I am not armed.....

The people who already don't follow the law..they never will..so the only people who are going to get screwed are the law aiding citizens that are not armed..sorry..not going to ever support taking away guns. I think it would be a wonderful world if they weren't any guns..but there ARE..too late for that....and always will be..

ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION...simple...follow the laws already on the books..period. Why make new laws if you have no respect for the current laws? It seems insane to me. I have other issues as well...

I know a South African Lesbian Engineer who was contributing a lot to our society get deported because her visa had run out..and she lost her appeal...

..another South African Lesbian Woman I knew wanted to get married to me so she wasn't deported...but it was too late....

...so we pick and choose who has to follow the law..and who doesn't...and that is bullshit...

FREE SPEECH..I will always support it...I don't have to like it..and I can protest it...but on a public stage...I will support free speech always...and I reserve my right to challenge their POV and for the people who think they can have free speech and no consequences..buy a clue. Free speech works both ways...

So...I am at odds with Liberals a lot of the time..but I AM a Liberal...with strong socialist leanings....

I am not a sheep nor do I visit the hive mind even though I often agree with the conclusions of the left hive mind...I have a mind of my own...and that puts me in bed sometimes with my enemy.....it is what it is...

Oh yeah [MENTION=14705]Pix[/MENTION] ...

Next time..you must do this...

It took a lot of willpower for me not to suddenly grab her arm and go, "Not so fast, sweet cheeks, we've built up far too much sexual tension for me to let you go so easily."

...and record it...

[Pix]

The rest of your post succinctly suggests it IS a general rule.

Lex

I know, but to be clear I was saying why I believed it even though I haven't seen that much of it myself. Most of those I hang around with are actually reasonable and also understand that not everything can be solved by bumper sticker solutions. When I share about some of the people I've encountered (as I did in this thread) they have their own stories and often more of them (which is how I was able to give one as an example, the one who works to get Democrats elected).

So it probably is the general rule, but at the same time there's more who think of these things with more complexity that it appears...especially as I think the news media love to find two extreme sides because it's easy to understand their black & white position devoid of shades of grey, it creates drama (and thus attracts views, especially if it enters into shades of Jerry Springer which it can, and also creates fear when people get the idea that the extreme side is the majority), and thus they can sell their advertising space for more than if they were more responsible in informing the public (and the electorate). It's easy to become frightened, jaded, and cynical watching the news, but they shape the events (not necessarily by intent or with conscious awareness, mind you) as much as report on it.

Remember, the same people who did everything to keep you glued to the screen, typically through fear (including very irresponsible tactics--it was surreal when even one of the more absurd FOX newscasters was telling the media to calm down about ebola, I wondered if I'd woken up in a parallel universe!) tried to inspire mass panic (and thus gluing people to the screen or buying their print) over anthrax, swine flu, ebola, and such are also the same people informing you about the issues, so take what they present with a grain of salt. Unfortunately when enough of people believe it then it becomes something of a societal self-fulfilling prophecy. I believe George Carlin also had some things to say about how we're controlled by being divided.

[MikeW]

See...that is the thing....

I could do a list on Christians too.,..a long ass list....and so for me...it is about religious extremists...and they seem to exist mainly in Christianity...and in Islam...and the damage they do is insane...
...
...but the ones who think we should have Sharia Law in America can go fuck themselves...just like the Christians who want to abolish the separation of church and state....they can go fuck themselves too.

We need another word besides "fundamentalist" or "fundamentalism" to describe the problem here.

It is truly a psychological issue... PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE THEY HAVE THE (one and only) ANSWER.

So far as I can make out, it is a fear and control issue. These people are so horrified at the prospect of their own annihilation that they swaddle themselves in a materialistic theology that is ABSOLUTIST. There they feel safe. BUT... that sense of safety only works within a constructed consensus reality: "What we believe is REAL, the ONLY REALITY!" So it all becomes about getting everyone else to see the same reality you do; and God damn them that are so blind they can't or won't.

Meh.... crazy is as crazy does. They're still going to turn to dust just like the rest of us.

[RUoutthere]

WOW!!!!
Seems like an awful lot of folks here resemble those they are judging.

There will always be INDIVIDUALS that can influence the thinking of other individuals into thinking their ideas are right. It is what that group does to improve or damage the world we all share that matters. Choosing some religious doctrine or in many cases, only portions of the doctrine that suits their cause does not mean they are fulfilling the true purpose of the doctrine or religious beliefs.

Lot's of comments about what bad things Christians have done and yet there are overwhelming facts that when disaster happens anywhere in the world, the greatest amount of support that travels to the disaster site and deals with horrific conditions and donates more than any other separately identified organizations, is Christians. Go to any VA cemetery and count the number of Christian crosses verses any other religious symbol or unmarked graves that represent those who sacrificed to give us the rights and freedoms we all enjoy.

My take on all this, focus on the individuals. Not the names of religions or organizations they use to identify themselves. For me as a Christian, I am compelled to love everyone, including my enemies. That is what Jesus commanded Christians to do. I think this is what it means to be a true Christian. I am content to let God be the final judge.

[BlueStar]

My first love is Muslim.

Does that make him a terrorist?

What about gay muslims?

Terrorism knows no religion.

[East]

WOW!!!!
Seems like an awful lot of folks here resemble those they are judging.

Ya think?

It is Christians who have helped the countries in Africa try to enact the Death Penalty for gay people..citing Leviticus to "prove" their POV (and conveniently ignoring the rest of Leviticus) So..no worries...I have noticed how they "help" around the world.

They "help" around the world at a price. I know..I had it out with a Christian ministry who wanted me to send money so a kid could eat...and I was willing to do it..but in order that he not starve...he had to be forced into being brainwashed by the Christian School they had set up. Trading religion for a hungry belly..very immoral...and now we can see where that led...."Christians" in Africa eager to enact the Death Penalty for gay people with American Clergy and Republicans eagerly helping them.

Do you have any idea how many gay people have committed suicide or led miserable lives because of your Christian bullshit...

So please...save the WOWs...really ...very fucking annoying...

You can't be that fucking clueless that you haven't noticed what YOUR religion has done to us....

...and who would want to spend eternity in the place you call heaven with the fuckwads who preached all this crap? No thanks...sounds like hell to me

Turns out..Christians are the worst advertisement for Christianity...

...and thinking you know THE answer for everyone does you no favors

[LONDONER]

My first love is Muslim.

Does that make him a terrorist?

What about gay muslims?

Terrorism knows no religion.

No, not all Muslims are terrorists but right at the moment the vast majority of terrorists are Muslims.

[RUoutthere]

Man EAST, calm down.

No one can control individuals that interpret their own meanings from the Bible, Koran, or any other belief system. You chose to identify Christians that have taken extreme measures into their hands just as some Muslims have taken extreme measures from selective passages in the Koran. That doesn't make all Christians, Muslims, or other believers of what they bleive responsible.

I do happen to provide financial support for two children in So. Africa and two in India. We correspond frequently and I have no doubt their lives are better for it. I have a trip coming up early next year where I will visit the two in India. If you are suggesting that because those who believe in God and offer the opportunity for these children to survive the harsh conditions they have to live in is brain washing, then my question is, what are you doing to help them. Since they are not adults making decisions for a country that impoverishes them, are you saying that by becoming educated that they will never be able to make their own decision. First, they have to survive to do it. Teaching about Jesus and God is not they only education they get from the Christian ministries. These ministries also are made up of people who give up all the luxuries you and I enjoy in the US to do this. Many of them are in radical Muslim controlled countries where they are tortured and killed for their efforts to provide a better life for others just because they are Christian. Why don't you try doing that for a couple of years. Especially in a Muslim controlled nation. Try admitting you are gay there.

You would have to provide me well documented proof that there is a wide spread conspiracy consisting of Christians that are hell bent on having gay people killed. When you are in a ministry in a foreign country and your mission is to do what you can to improve the quality of life for those who are neglected by their country and other people throughout the world that enjoy all the wonderful things like you and I do, you must be extremely careful about what you say and do that could be considered rebellious of the local government. I will not try to say you are totally wrong and that there are not professing Christians that support radical action against what they judge as sin. And I condemn their actions.

I do my best to practice the love for all mankind that Jesus commanded Christians to do. I do not get offended by those who make extreme criticisms of Christians because at the route of it I have always discovered that they try to lump all Christians into this one category. Like all Muslims are terrorists.

You know virtually nothing at all about me. You have already categorized me with what you have experienced in life. I am always concerned for someone who harbors so much anger and hate. Please remember, I am gay also. I have had my share of struggles. I have 30 years associated with the US military. Not the easiest place to be gay. But I have had many that have never let my sexual preference interfere with our relationship. All the rest, I just do my best to accept them for who they are knowing that I do not know all that they have had to deal with.

I would like to think that you and I can agree to disagree based on our life experiences. I am sorry that yours has been so negative about Christians. But please do not assume you can categorize us all as being evil.