Bitter people, Twisted minds, toxic relationships

[TigerLover]

He just won't get it! I hate that he wouldn't even try to comprehend what it is like in here

Now, I won't waste my time talking to him cuz I already gave him a fraction and told him to shut up and that's what he gets for being foolishly ignorant about the subject!

Honestly man he's being completely illogical and foolish. But from his other posts I can tell he's not an illogical guy. So I think this is probably the result of a personal trauma. So try not to judge him too harshly, We don't know what discrimination he's endured.

[TigerLover]

Los Angeles, San Bernardino, Modesto, Las Vegas, San Francisco, Portland - there is a long list of cities I have lived in and I see the exact same "hate the other" activities. These places were a hell of a lot worse in the 1980's than they are in 2015 simply because we in the LGBT community stood our ground. Yes we were beaten, imprisoned, murdered, hung on fences to die - but through those many atrocities we won a voice, a much needed voice that has lead to an era of tolerance and Same Gendered Marriage spreading f

Man I understand the need to fight for what you believe in. Heck I like to fight. Plus I use my voice to defend LGBT rights whenever I gets the chance.

But you're being very silly.

Would you ask a guy living in dark age Europe to fight for LGBT rights.?

No because dark age Europe was far too primitive to handle LGBT rights. A gay man fighting for his rights back then could win nothing but a sword to the guts.

In the same way Jordanian society is far more primitive than 1980's America. It's not even a full democracy and their education system is completely broken (by western standards).

I'm sorry you had to go through all that stuff. But if you had tried to live the same life in Jordan, you'd be dead by now.

[verysimple]

Sounds as if your own parents are your worst enemies, which is beyond terrible. I can understand why you've written off your dad, but your mother's nagging seems to be a more recent development, if I read your story correctly. Have you asked her what bug crept up her ass that made her become so bitter not to long ago? Does she know how much she hurts you? If you've done all this and nothing has changed, time to write her off as well.

Btw, do you have any other family nearby where you can turn to for some support? How's the relationship with your brother and your sisters?

It's a miracle you're so together after all this, so keep your head high and try to get out of the situation as soon as you can. I have no idea what is possible for you, but you should develop some kind of escape-plan, to have something to look forward to.

I'm stereotyping here, but I guess your situation is one that is shared by many young gay men in Muslim countries. Are there any internet resources for young gay Muslims you could tap into? A few months ago you wrote happily about some friends you met through your bf and how that all soured very soon. Are things ok again or have they completely disappeared from your life?

Thanks for sharing all this, it must gave been difficult to write this all down. Don't worry if you don't want to answer my questions on here, they are more for your benefit, to give you ideas.

Well, I am on good terms with my younger siblings but not my older ones, I feel like my older siblings' spirits have been crushed and their souls have been consumed already by their surroundings so when I look at them I feel like they're dead on the inside which is fucked!!!

I hate this society, I hate this country and I hate all these rules and traditions... All of that is nothing but strains and chains projected onto us by older, dumber past generations.. It's fucking bullshit!!! I don't think a Muslim/ gay forum actually exists and idc about finding one cuz I am still living how I want, or to put it in other terms, I am still in control of my thoughts and beliefs so to say.. Which to me is good. Don't you worry I am already working on my escape plan, and hopefully then, I'll never have to look back to this slum in my life.. EVER!

My spirit and soul still belong to me and my spark is flaming... They will never be able to crush my spirit cuz I am elastic and I will keep trying to get the F out of here until my last day.. but let's hope I make it out of here before that, haha

[verysimple]

Sounds as if your own parents are your worst enemies, which is beyond terrible. I can understand why you've written off your dad, but your mother's nagging seems to be a more recent development, if I read your story correctly. Have you asked her what bug crept up her ass that made her become so bitter not to long ago? Does she know how much she hurts you? If you've done all this and nothing has changed, time to write her off as well.

Btw, do you have any other family nearby where you can turn to for some support? How's the relationship with your brother and your sisters?

It's a miracle you're so together after all this, so keep your head high and try to get out of the situation as soon as you can. I have no idea what is possible for you, but you should develop some kind of escape-plan, to have something to look forward to.

I'm stereotyping here, but I guess your situation is one that is shared by many young gay men in Muslim countries. Are there any internet resources for young gay Muslims you could tap into? A few months ago you wrote happily about some friends you met through your bf and how that all soured very soon. Are things ok again or have they completely disappeared from your life?

Thanks for sharing all this, it must gave been difficult to write this all down. Don't worry if you don't want to answer my questions on here, they are more for your benefit, to give you ideas.

Oh and the thing with the friends was over a long time ago.. I had a fall out with one of them and quit their chat group, I still remained friends with some... but Yeah, Things ended in a funny way to me LOL

[verysimple]

Man I understand the need to fight for what you believe in. Heck I like to fight. Plus I use my voice to defend LGBT rights whenever I gets the chance.

But you're being very silly.

Would you ask a guy living in dark age Europe to fight for LGBT rights.?

No because dark age Europe was far too primitive to handle LGBT rights. A gay man fighting for his rights back then could win nothing but a sword to the guts.

In the same way Jordanian society is far more primitive than 1980's America. It's not even a full democracy and their education system is completely broken (by western standards).

I'm sorry you had to go through all that stuff. But if you had tried to live the same life in Jordan, you'd be dead by now.

EXACTLY!!! THANK YOUU... To finally have some understanding and consideration coming from people with support too... That is my point exactly and I am being harsh with my judgements cuz he just doesn't understand how difficult it is to be in my place and position let alone LIVING this life as a daily thing to go through with it everyday thinking and acting... FEELING in a way that you don't want and you're no supposed to be but you have to so that you can just survive and stay alive.. And they call that freedom? Huh, I don't think so...

[wayward]

A great lesson to learn is that it is not your responsibility to fix your parents or extended family. Such choices are investments without return. Best wishes Very Simple, I hope your story inspires and educates others.

[meridannight]

Would you ask a guy living in dark age Europe to fight for LGBT rights.?

No because dark age Europe was far too primitive to handle LGBT rights. A gay man fighting for his rights back then could win nothing but a sword to the guts.

In the same way Jordanian society is far more primitive than 1980's America. It's not even a full democracy and their education system is completely broken (by western standards).

even Dark Age Europe is not comparable to islamic countries right now. men still had sex with other men in Europe and it goes back as far as Ancient Greece if not more. it was the Inquisition that was responsible for most physical harm done on gays back then. and the Inquisition, while being a religious institution, was also motivated by money and personal gains (lands of those tortured/killed were confiscated). not to mention they deliberately concocted false accusations of sodomy and sexual relations with men to gain the wealth and lands of someone who had fallen out of favor with the church, or whose lands the church needed.

also, even in medieval Europe and later, church and religion didn't dictate the life for people, and certainly not for the ruling classes. the rulers of Europe were constantly at odds with the pope and the church and even started wars against him in order to put the pope to his proper place. church was a business, of sorts, rather than a ruling authority (except for some of the uneducated masses).

mostly, men who had sex with men in historical Europe were fined, jailed (or exiled at repeated offenses), not killed. it's true a lot of them were killed as well, but that was not the general rule. it mainly happened during more radical persecutions, or to make an example and show. there was a preacher called Savonarola who advocated killing all men who committed sodomy (he also advocated for burning books and went through with that latter one). he is among the worst Europe has ever produced.

the ruling class of Europe is full of examples of men who held male lovers, and there was not a damn thing some religious head could do about it but express his dissatisfaction and claim it's the end of the world upon them now.

Europe has never been what the Middle East is right now.

No because dark age Europe was far too primitive to handle LGBT rights. A gay man fighting for his rights back then could win nothing but a sword to the guts.

this is false. European society looked down upon sodomy, and men who had sex with other men, but they didn't agree that they should be killed for it.

Giovanni Gambi, a contemporary chronicler thought three things had brought about the prior's downfall: his attack on the papacy, his attack on the Medici, and his saying that ''sodomites should be burned''.

as the most exceptional example i know of, a group of young men stood up to Savonarola in late 15th century and they contributed to his downfall. they initiated and participated in the campaign against him.

Organized aggression against Savonarola and the Piagnoni came above all from the aristocratic youth company known as the Compagnacci. According to the chronicler Bartolomeo Cerretani, the group's core was formed by ten older youths known as the vecchi (elders) plus ten younger men, all from eminent families, with a following of several hundred other youths. To defy the friar's censure of worldly pleasures, they staged lavish banquets that caught the awed notice of the entire city. Adopting more direct action, they disrupted his sermons, harried his followers, and tormented his troops of boys by insulting them and attacking their processions.

some of these men but not all were 'homosexual'. but they stood up to Savonarola's extremism and fought back. they didn't get the sword to the guts. Savonarola got a noose around his neck and set on fire instead (because even the catholic church had had enough of him).

Europe has always been the civilized free world. Europeans have never let others tell them what they should or should not do.

i suggest people read these books:

Forbidden Friendships

Homosexuality and Civilization